Inside the gun community there are always talks about which is the better caliber, such as .308 vs the .243 or 9mm against the .45 ACP. Then of course there’s the long range rock star competitive round 6.5 Creedmoor against the .223/5.56 combat load issue of the military and well known among recreational shooters.
For those in hunting and competitive long range shooting circles all know that there isn’t much to compare when viewed only through long range superiority. Now for hunting or home defense there are some considerations. Lets take a look at some basic factors for hunting, home defense/tactical and competitive shooting.
At a first glance from this comparison the 6.5 Creedmoor stands out from a ballistics standpoint for precision long range. The 6.5 Creedmoor stands out in many ways such as sectional density.
Sectional density is about longer and thinner bullets that are more aerodynamic than short fat ones. Therefore, high sectional Density bullets have a higher Ballistic Coefficient (BC) than low sectional density bullets.
Quality .223 bullets have about .400 BC. The CM has .510 BC, many higher end 6.5 Creedmoor bullets are even better.
For precision long range shooting the 6.5 Creedmoor bullet is less likely to drift in the wind and lose velocity.
DEAD FOOT ARMS
Knock Down Power
This is sort of a controversial subject in itself. Can stopping and knockdown power be measured? There are numbers info on this such as:
6.5 Creedmoor – 123 grn bullet has a muzzle velocity of 2700 – 2900 fps depending on powder type
.223 – 36 gr 1,124 ft-lbf
55 gr 1,282 ft-lbf
55-grain bullets has a muzzle velocity of 2,784 fps
Does this really translate to knockdown power? Terminal performances isn’t related to kinetic energy. Here’s another analogy, here’s an average football player at 230 lbs and sprints at 25.5 FPS which can produce 2020 ft-lbs of energy. A 190gr bullet moving at 2200FPS produces almost identical energy. Which is more likely to take down an Elk?
Still don’t see the picture?
A 490 grain Broad-head arrow traveling at 225 Feet Per Second (FPS) has a kinetic energy of 55 ft-lbs. A 1 Pound Gel filled bag launched at 60 FPS has a Kinetic Energy of 55 ft-lbs.
Same kinetic energy. One can kill deer, but the other would have trouble killing a squirrel. Energy doesn’t matter.
If you’re hunting small game like a coyote it doesn’t matter if you’re running the .223 or 6.5 CM. But if you’re trying to harvest a deer or bigger like an elk, the .223 is too small, plus for ethical reasons.
Again, going back to sectional density, the 6.5 Creedmoor prevails over the .223 in more penetration and momentum. At distance inside 300 yards the 6.5 CM and the .308 are equal.
Yes, with a custom 6.5 CM rifle, 24″ barrel with 1:8″ twist can put down a game at 800 – 1000yd. But in reality, most hunters will ever hit targets past 200 yards. Another fact that many don’t know, the 6.5 millimeter round have been used in hunting for over 100 years on bears and moose in Scandinavia.
The .223/5.56 was design for close quarter combat with the low recoil, multiple shots can get on target quickly. The 6.5 CM was design for going up against the .308 in competitive long distance shooting.
But what about barrier penetration? Is this a thing to consider for home defense? Some thoughts on this is that most home defense scenario is not going to be room to room fighting in your home. This is what we usually see in the movies.
For the soldier, yes its something to consider, fighting from a cover position is part of the job description for house to house clearing.
Overall, the .223 does not have good penetration compared to the 6.5 CM. Some preppers and defender groups would probably go with the 6.5 CM even though its not the ideal general purpose combat round, but it is better than the .223.
For competitive shooting the .223 is used in 3 Gun comp. The distance is at short ranges out to 50 yards, the emphasis is on speed hitting. Whereas our 6.5 Creedmoor is on the long range that mainly competes with other long range calibers like the .243 and the mighty .308. Design for the long range the bullet is sleeker with less recoil to help them win matches. Two shooting sport one for short range and the other long range that requires the sniper skill.
The 6.5 CM seems to be the round for the many tasks. But, if budget was the case for making a decision to invest in. The 6.5 CM round costs more than the .223.
A box of 20 6.5 CM costs around $6.00. A .223 box of 20 is about $5.00. A dollar differences, if you wanted a better deal then do some searches at Cabelas or Brownells website.
If you know your’e only going after small varmints or target shooting only at 100 yards. You should just stick with .223. If money is not an issue then get both. Swapping out for a 6.5 CM is a breeze with an AR platform. Target shooting with the .223 and for your hunting the 6.5 CM will take care of business.
The Henry Long Ranger 6.5 Creedmoor stretches the limits of lever action rifles to a whole new distance. In this segment with 22Plinkster, he takes a look at the long-range capabilities.
This Henry Long Ranger rifle has a 22 inch barrel with 1:8 twist rate. Comes with a hammer extender so your finger doesn’t slip off of it as you fire. This Long Ranger holds 4 rounds. Sporting a VX3i Leupold target scope with 6.5×20 power to see what you’re shooting at. Not exactly the best for hunting, but good enough for target shooting.
22Plinkster is shooting a steel target at 450 yards with 140 grain open tip match ammo. With the rifle tuned in on 200 yards, 22Plinkster would need to aim about 3 inches above the target due to the 30 to 33 inch drop. He first shoots it from the supported bench and tries his hand at free handed from the standing position. How does he do, well take a look at the video below.
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Long Ranger Specs:
Barrel TypeRound Blued Steel
Rate of Twist1:8
Receiver FinishHard Anodized Black
ScopeabilityDrilled and Tapped
Scope Mount TypeIncluded
Stock MaterialAmerican Walnut
Buttplate/PadBlack Solid Rubber Recoil Pad
Length of Pull14″
Best UsesTarget/Hunting/Large Game
Embellishments/ExtrasSwivel Studs. Removable Magazine. Hammer Extension and Scope Mount Included.
The 6.5 Creedmoor rifle cartridge has been around for a while now and very popular among long range competitive shooters. This caliber is also effective for hunting as well. As a matter of fact the 6.5 is gaining rapid popularity. With its mild recoil and long range accuracy this caliber can compete along the lines of other long range cartridges such as the .308.
Anyhow, the 6.5 isn’t new. The 6.5 caliber has been around since 1891. Orginally, produced for the Swedish military, hunters in Europe quickly found it to be great on game.
Winchester came out with the .264 Win Mag and Remington launched its .260 Remington. Both of these calibers are great performers but it took a while for it to catch fire in the hunting world. Many people are asking is the 6.5 good for hunting?
Here’s a few from our list that you can check out, some of these are factory and custom loads to match your hunting scene.
Max. Velocity Range: 3,550 fps
Water Capacity: 96 grains
Max. Pressure: 65,000 PSI
The 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum is the fastest production 6.5mm there is. Combined with high Ballistic Coefficient (BC) projectiles designed for long range shooting, the velocity of the 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum opens a whole new world of possibilities and provides hunters with the terminal performance every Weatherby shooter is accustomed to.
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Max. Velocity Range: 3,400 fps
Water Capacity: 93.5 grains
Max. Pressure: 65,000 PSI
Originally designed for competitive shooting, it is an excellent hunting cartridge as well. Its relatively short case coupled with a long O.A.C.L. maximizes usable powder capacity with heavier projectile weights. H4350 and RL17 yield good accuracy and velocity.
Max. Velocity Range: 3,190 fps
Water Capacity: 57.9 grains
Max. Pressure: 51,000 PSI
Offers a host of attributes that make it an ideal round for many hunting situations.
Browning’s 129gr BXR
Bullet Type: BXR Rapid Expansion Matrix Tip
Bullet Weight: 129 grains
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.557
Muzzle Velocity: 2,850 feet per second
Designed for rapid expansion on thin-skinned game, the the Browning BXR 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is great for whitetail, blacktail, mule deer and pronghorn hunting.
Hornady Superformance 120gr GMX
Bullet Type: GMX
Bullet Weight: 120 grains
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.450
Muzzle Velocity: 2,925 feet per second (Full Boar) & 3,050 feet per second (Superformance)
Not only does Hornady’s Superformance line of 6.5 Creedmoor ammo give you a higher muzzle velocity than any other brand of factory loaded 6.5 Creedmoor hunting ammo, but it also uses the outstanding GMX bullet.
Federal Fusion 140gr
Bullet Type: Soft Point
Bullet Weight: 140 grains
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.439
Muzzle Velocity: 2,750 feet per second
Though Federal designed the Fusion line of ammunition specifically for deer hunting, it will also work really well for just about any other species of thin-skinned game. So, regardless of whether you want to take your 6.5 Creedmoor antelope hunting, mule deer hunting, or whitetail hunting, you can count on this load to get the job done.
Bullet Type: Pointed Soft Point
Bullet Weight: 140 grains
Muzzle Velocity: 2,700 feet per second
Remington now offers the Core Lokt in 6.5 Creedmoor. So, if you’re a “meat and potatoes” kind of guy who wants a reasonably priced and dependable load to use in your 6.5 Creedmoor for hunting deer, black bear, feral hogs and even elk, then the Remington’s 6.5 Creedmoor 140 grain Core Lokt will probably work really well for you.
Barnes VOR-TX LR 127gr LRX-BT
The 127gr VOR-TX LR load is a really good choice for a person who wants to use the 6.5 Creedmoor for hunting big game at longer ranges like mule deer, pronghorn, Himalayan Tahr, sheep, mountain goat, and chamois.
Worldwide, the 6.5 Creedmoor is recognized in the precision long range shooting arena as one of the most accurate and powerful cartridge, which is also used in hunting. With the power to throw a powerful punch, the Hornady round could easily catch an average whitetail by the use of a relative case.
Regardless, a lot of people still choose to go with 7mm-08 Remington while deer hunting as its salient feature is an excellent balance with propellant charge, bullet, and precision. 7mm-08 Remington vs. 6.5 Creedmoor, which of these rounds would be able to give you more value when you are deer hunting outdoor? If you have plans to go hunting for deer, but you do not know which of these two, 7mm-08 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor, can deliver more value, by the end of this article you probably will be able to decide for yourself.
This is one of those articles which will give you all the necessary details and information that deer hunters need to know about their rounds such as production history as well as performance on the field. Gain a general sense, a lot of different people choose to go for different qualities in a cartridge, and that is why a lot of them have opposing outcomes views when it comes to the ‘best’ round for deer hunting.
So, if you are also one of the people who want to know the right choice, read the details provided in this article carefully. Making a fair assessment between the cartridges, you can have basic knowledge, how about their features if you thoroughly research their developmental history. Here is a bit of historical information that you should remember about 7mm-08 Remington as well as Creedmoor 6.5.
7mm-08 Remington Back in 1958, a certain 7mm/308 Winchester wildcat round was brought into development as its name hints, people developed this round by just necking down a standard .308 Winchester to have .284 bullets (7mm). The round would be spending the next two decades in the wildcat category until Remington came into play and began using the round, releasing it into the market under the name of 7mm-08 Remington. In a 0.308 round in use, 7mm-08 takes a close second place in polarity with 0.243 Winchester is taking the first spot. But with the right type of bullets, the Remington could take down small and medium deer with ease.
6.5 Creedmoor Released to the public in the market by Hornady in 2007, the Creedmoor 6.5 is a modification of 3.0 Thompson center which was also a bit related to .308 Winchester. First of all, Hornady tried to come up with round that possesses the length of .308 Winchester while also keeping the strength of .30-.60 Springfield. What came out was.30 Thompson Center, the requirement of the project was definitely completed, but acceptance of the round by the customers was low which brought the round not to the top but to the sidelines. Fortunate enough, Hornady reinvented the design, necked down the design of the round and that is how the Creedmoor 6.5 came into being.
Comparison of dimensions of both the round 7mm-08 Remington 7mm-08 Remington Parent Case: .308 Winchester Case Type: Rimless, bottleneck Bullet: 7.2 mm Neck: 8.0 mm Base: 11.9 mm Creedmoor 6.5 Parent Case: .30 Thompson Center Case Type: Rimless, bottleneck Bullet: 6.72 mm Neck: 7.49 mm Base: 11.95 mm
Since both of the rounds are in some way connected to the .308 Winchester, it is understandable that 7mm-08 Remington and Creedmoor 6.5 have a lot of similarities among them. Due to a slim body of the Remington cartridge, its case can easily fit into some short action firearms which is one of the features that deer hunters really appreciate.
Carrying a lightweight gun such as compact rifles is something every deer hunter looks for. In the same way, the Hornady cartridge goes out smoothly in while carrying long as well as lead bullets. Considering all of the criteria mentioned above, the 7mm-08 Remington given you a high velocity but the Creedmoor has an edge over penetration power.
Rounds and Accuracies 7mm-08 Remington Even though there are a lot of factors that come into play and have an influence over how the precision is in the field, the Remington cartridge basically is known as giving a good reputation for itself. When trained hunters use it, the 7mm-08 Remington can easily hit a lot of targets by the use of factory loads. Let’s consider these numbers, a normal round that has a 140-grain bullet can give a muzzle velocity of 2800 Fps and energy of 2400 ft.-Lbs. Compared to this distance, deer hunting revolves around 400-500 yards and the Remington can easily fulfill this task with ease.
Creedmoor 6.5 Due to a good rifle ratio of 1:8, the Creedmoor 6.5 gives great results even if you use heavy bullets for it. But you should always use, marketable ammunition with lightweight bullets as they are designed to give you a lot of flexibility and versatility. Generally, a Creedmoor cartridge that has a 140-grain bullet gives a muzzle velocity of 2700 fps and runs in a supersonic range for at least 1150 yards. In a deer hunting process, this is good enough for you to take down a deer within a normal range of 400 yards.
Pros and cons of the rounds 7mm-08 Remington Even though the hit back of the Remington is hard, the cartridge is fairly easy to use and that is because of the recoil of the round after taking a shot. If you are a professional hunter and don’t want a sore shoulder, you should always go for a Remington. Moreover, the round is very easily available around all the markets so you can buy enough of ammunition fairly easily. The Remington also gives a good round flare in dense vegetation since the best of the rifles around the world are chambered according to a 7mm-08 Remington.
6.5 Creedmoor With the capability of hitting targets over long distances, the 6.5 Creedmoor works very well in case you require to take long distance shots. If you are a professional hunter, you can catch a target of approximately 2000 using the Hornady cartridge, keeping in mind that such opportunities rarely present themselves. But any such conditions, the Creedmoor bullet can easily tackle gravity, wind any other hurdles which could put the bullet on a flat trajectory. Even though the length of the Creedmoor is similar to that of .308 Winchester, it can hold bigger bullets fairly easily. Considering the drawbacks, Creedmoor can help you in catching a target such as a deer, but if the target is bigger than a deer such as an elk or a moose, it may become shorthanded. Even though a very careful shot has the possibility of scoring a bigger target than a deer, if you want to increase or maximize your chances you should always choose to go with another round if you want to make sure you catch bigger animals.
Final Shot There are a lot of factors that you need to bring into consideration if you want to hunt deer so it’s quite hard to decide on one single round for all those factors combined. Hence, it is totally your choice at the end to compare the factors given above and see which deem more important to you. You should also note down your shooting habits and then determine which round would suit you the most and maximize your chances of a score. However, if you think you may run into bigger targets while hunting deer and want to have a shot at scoring them too, 7m-08 Remington is the better and superior choice.
The .260 Remington and 6.5 Creedmoor are very similar rounds. Both are 6.5mm bullet diameter and compatible with .308 Winchester rifles with a barrel switch.
The .260 Remington is well-known within the hunting circles, the 6.5 Creedmoor is basically the new unicorn of the long range precision shooting crowd.
New shooters embrace the 6.5 Creedmoor without having to know how to reload. The 6.5 Creedmoor was design to be competitive at the top level of high-powered long range competition using factory ammunition plus being novice reloader friendly. The other factors that made this cartridge more appealing to the competitive shooter is the low recoil and factory loads would be no more expensive than the .308 Winchester.
Pros & Cons
Both cartridges have the ability to hit a target at 700 to 1000 yards with a well built rifle.
The .260 Remington was design for a bolt-action rifle. For the semi-auto finger, the 6.5 Creedmoor prevails. .260 Remington Pros
Brass easily formed from the 308 family
Most case capacity of the three cartridges
Exactly the same body diameter, taper, and OAL as .308 Cons
Brass either very expensive or marginal quality
Very limited supply of long-range factory match loads
Sentiments from seasoned long range shooters – The .260 Remington is a solid performer for long-range matches, with good barrel life and 300WM-like ballistics. The .260 is the status quo that 6.5 Creedmoor have to go up against and prove their worth.
6.5 Creedmoor Pros
Almost identical case capacity to .260 Remington
Long-range factory loads to be available from Hornady
Quality yet affordable brass to be available
Load recipe printed on factory ammo boxes
Better case design than .260 Cons
Still new. Component availability to be proven
Is different than .260 but doesn’t offer substantially more performance
Theres a confusion that some shooters think that good match cartridges are also good hunting cartridges.
These competition cartridges are usually designed with specific features for whatever reasons that has nothing to do with hunting cartridges and hunting rifles.
Hornady has the right mind-set to make 6.5 Creedmoor a success in the competitive and practical market, unlike Remington who basically let the .260 languish in a few hunting rifles.
If the two cartridges of the same caliber are loaded to the same maximum average pressure (MAP) with the same weight bullet. Logically, the case with the most powder can drive the bullet to a higher velocity. Resulting in more energy and a flatter trajectory downrange.
When you compare this to the .308 and .30-06, if the .30-06 had a 10% greater case capacity. The .30-06 is the superior performer.
With the .260 Remington you can squeeze another 50 fps into the casing. So, it should be no surprise that the 6.5mm Creedmoor is, ballistically, inherently inferior to the larger .260 Remington.
The 6.5mm Creedmoor was designed as a match cartridge, not for hunting. Its case was shortened to allow the neck to grip very long ogive match bullets with a cartridge overall length that would allow its use in short action target rifles.
Both of these cartridges are designed to be used in short (.308 length) rifle actions.
Basically, reloaders with modern rifles load both calibers to the same MAP with the same bullets, in which case the .260 will always be first over the 6.5mm Creedmoor in performance.
From the standpoint of the game hunter, both cartridges do the same thing and no big game animal will know the difference between them.
The 6.5 Creedmoor is easier to find due to the popularity. The .260 Remington is usually cheaper by 50% compared to the Creedmoor round. Another thing to note is that the 6.5 Creedmoor has a “softer” brass which means that it doesn’t last as long or have as high of performance.
Here’s a list of factory hunting loads using 139-143 grain bullets along with the catalog muzzle velocity (fps) and muzzle energy (ft. lbs.) from 24″ test barrels.
Hornady 140 grain BTHP: MV 2690 fps, ME 2249 ft. lbs.
Hornady 143 grain ELD-X: MV 2700 fps, ME 2315 ft. lbs.
Nosler 140 grain BT: MV 2650 fps, ME 2183 ft. lbs.
Federal 140 grain BTSP: MV 2700 fps, ME 2350 ft. lbs.
Nosler 140 grain PT: MV 2725 fps, ME 2308 ft. lbs.
Remington 140 grain C-L PSP: MV 2750 fps, ME 2351 ft. lbs.
At the end of the day, it really depends on personal preference. Take into consideration which bullets you plan to shoot, and whether or not you are willing to switch them to accommodate aesthetics or if you are hard lined on performance and personal comfort.
Anyone with a rifle in any of these two calibers would be silly to ditch a working system to switch to another. They are that similar. Make your choice based on component availability and price.
The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don’t make hits — shooters do.
There are some great short action rifles available, some rifles being offered in 6.5 Creedmoor. There is another similar case, but not quite the same its the .308 Winchester. The 6.5 Creedmoor uses skinnier, lighter bullets and its faster downrange than .308.
However, the 6.5 Creedmoor is very popular as a great selection for medium to long range (500-1000 yards) shooting. Which is why the military has incorporated this into some of their specialized rifles for long range targets.
Ballistic speaking, the skinny 6.5mm bullets perform exceptionally well, very closely matching the ballistic profile of a 300 Winchester Magnum, but with much less recoil and cost.
Its possible that for SHTF scenario the 6.5 Creedmoor is the better ballistic cartridge than .308 due to performance consistency. The 308 was designed in 1952 for a semi-automatic military rifle, while the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed in 2007 for better long range target performance in a bolt action rifle.
Here’s Youtuber GLgunsandgear doing some shooting from 1000 yards pitting the 6.5 Creedmoor against the .308. GLgunsandgear had to adjust due to windy conditions, but he was on target. Have a look.
Here’s Jason Blaha Youtuber talking about which caliber best fits the SHTF scenario.
Video Transcription Hey everybody it’s Jason Blaha, here today to talk to you guys about how viable is it to replace the .308 -which you guys know I’m a big fan of, I’m a big fan of the .308 both as a hunting cartridge and a shit-hit-the-fan cartridge. Maybe not so much home defense, but the other two yeah definitely. Big fan of the caliber. Have been most of my life.-
The 6.5 Creedmoor. Can it replace it? Well we’ve covered a lot in the past about different roles. Like I’ve covered 223 vs .308 and why some people would pick 223 and why some would pick .308 for their specific situation for a Shit-hit-the-fan primary rifle. Well the 6.5 Creedmoor you would pick for the same reasons you would pick the .308. They would fill the same niche. You want a full-powered rifle round. Alright, full-powered rifle round. Obviously knowing it’s going to be heavier, more expensive, all of that. You’re going to be carrying less ammo if you have to go on foot.
But the 6.5 Creedmoor is becoming a very very popular alternative to the .308 in a number of different areas. A number of areas in hunting and precision shooting long distance. We need to understand those differences though between these cartridges when we talk about why someone might want to think about placing something as versatile as the .308, and I’ll let you guys decide for yourself what you want to do personally. I mean we all have our opinions on these things. Let’s discuss the facts.
As a hunting cartridge, they’re completely equal. Don’t let anyone convince you that there’s a significant difference between them. .308’s going to be a little heavier, 6.5 Creedmoor is going to be a lighter bullet. Smaller starting diameter, the better sectional density. Pretty similar energy with the energy going slightly in favor of the .308 due to the bullet weights, but that sectional density is very important for penetration. So I think honestly using similar shot placements, similar bullet styles, you’re going to see very similar -if not virtually identical- wound tracks through an animal. Virtually identical stopping power. It’s still gonna be shot placed when you’re picking the right bullet, and picking a range at which you can make a humane kill at. There’s virtually no difference at any of the ranges you’re going to be hunting at.
Now many people will point out ‘well, ballistically they’re different at really long distances’, that doesn’t matter for hunting, because honestly, I’m going to go out on a limb and say taking a shot past 600 yards with either one of these on a big animal like an elk absolutely is not a good idea as a hunter. I’m never gonna endorse anyone to do that, and I know some people are gonna say ‘well, you know, people have done it and they got meat in the freezer’, but that’s a high-risk shot on a big animal. Your chances of getting a humane kill are pretty slim. I know people have actually dropped Elk -on Youtube- on video with both calibers at distances over 600 yards, but not much beyond that. I’m gonna say for most hunters, really, 400 yards top with these calibers. Either one of those on a big animal, I don’t think beyond 400 is reasonable. You know, not saying some hunters don’t have the skill to do better, but the vast majority simply do not, and they have no business taking a shot like that.
Well at that sort of distance, these cartridges are virtually identical. Things like drop rate, wind drift, no difference.
Target shooting, the 6.5 is becoming more popular, it’s replacing the .308, when it comes to purely punching paper out at long distance. And I think when you look at the ballistics it makes sense. If your goal is ballistics, you don’t care about money spent, you care about producing the most accurate round you can make to hit targets out at around 800, 900, 1000 yards. You’re going to -in the hands of a similar skilled shooter, the same shooter you’re going to be more consistent with the 6.5. And the reason I say that is not just the drop rate, it is fine you’re shooting that far out. That only matters when you’re trying to kind of guestimate distances. When you know exact distances, that doesn’t matter wen you have it pinned down perfectly. The reason I say that though is wind drift. The 6.5 Creedmoor, you compare something like a 142 MatchKing in it verses a 168 or a 175 in the .308 that’s a comparable round. It has a better ballistic coefficient. And at those distances, it is moving a little bit faster. You’re simply going to have less wind drift to account for. And we’re talking about easily at some cases 12, 15 inches potentially difference at 1000 yards wind-drift difference. That’s a lot, and when you’re trying to guestimate wind drift, I don’t care how good you are, there’s a margin of error there. There’s a margin of error even with the best shooters, and with that one you can cut down that margin of error, you’re gonna get more consistency with that round. The 6.5 flat-out wns for target shooting past 600 yards. I don’t think anyone can really dispute that- actually out past 500 yards, I’d need to check the math on that.
It’s just better. It’s better. And I hate to say that about my .308 because I love my .308. So how does that translate to the real world? Well, that does matter for shit-hit-the-fan, because if you are going to take shots out at that distance, the 6.5 is gonna be better, it’s gonna be more consistent. And you start talking about Shit Hit the Fan, if you really need the shots that long -and I can assure you guys at any ROL scenario, the odds that most of you are ever, ever gonna be in a situation where you need to make an 800-1000 yard shot probably wouldn’t happen even if we do have a Shit Hit The Fan scenario, and you know we probably never will have a true Shit Hit The Fan scenario.
If we do -we’re theory crafting for that- for those really long distances, the 6.5 is gonna be better if you’re ever forced to do so. It shoots flatter, cuts the wind better, on soft-skinned two-legged game, I don’t think you’re gonna see a ballistics difference. I think you’re gonna see almost identical wounds. I don’t think ballistic there’s going to be a difference between these two rounds at any distance. It’s going to come down to accuracy at long distance.
Other advantages, then: What else does the 6.5 offer? Lighter weight. Carry more ammo. Is it tremendously lighter? No. I’d bet you the rounds are probably -I’d need to weigh ’em- I don’t have my hands on any right now, they’re probably ten… maybe, maybe in some cases 15% lighter, but I’d say closer to 10% lighter. That’s 10% more ammo you can carry for the same weight if you need to hump it around. That matters.
How ’bout recoil? Lighter recoil. Lighter recoil. That could matter in a firefight. Could matter. Is it a gamebreaker? Like, is it probably gonna make-or-break you, save your life, Vs. dying? Probably not. But it’s a little tiny advantage. Both of those are. 10% less weight per ammo, slightly less recoil, that could matter. So we’ve got a lot a lot of advantages for the 6.5. It has a lot going for it there.
Alright, downsides: Cost. Alright, cost can be comperable to make the ammo. It can be comperable to make the ammo. But if you actually want to make cheap ammo, you can make the .308 for less. I know people are gonna say ‘what are you talking about? I mean the rounds are similar priced, the 6.5 might be slightly cheaper per bullet, maybe a penny or two cheaper per projectile, a penny probably even for Sierra Matchkings, you’re probably gonna use a little less gunpowder, what are you talking about?’
Cost of brass.
If you want decent brass -Decent brass- you can get starline in .308, it’s only $300-somethin’ dollars for 1000. That’s 30-somethin’ cents per piece of brand-new brass that you’re gonna be able to reload several times. Some of these .308 guys are reloading it three or four times in an auto-loader, alright.
If you’re gonna get all match-brass, really good brass, alright, the 6.5 Creedmoor you’re getting comperable there, so you’re getting slightly less per projectiles and powder, but are you gonna stockpile all match brass for your Shit-hit-the-fan? I mean you’re talking about from anywhere upwards of 70 cents to over $1 per piece of brass for 6.5. No-one makes cheap brass for it. Starline doesn’t make brass for it. It looks like it’s like, Norma, Lapua, Hornady. I think that’s your only three makers of 6.5, and you’re not getting any of that less than 70c per piece of brass. And some of you are gonna be paying over a dollar. So it’s the cost of your brass. And I mean, we can argue all day long about brass being unusable so that matters the least, but if you’re talking about stockpiling a thousand rounds, 2000 rounds, that’s 2000 pieces of brass you gotta buy. It’s 70c to about $1.20, depending on what you get, you know, you’re getting up into thousands of dollars for your ammo! That adds up. Cost is a factor. Again, particularly if you want cheaper ammo. And, it’s gonna come down to availability of ammo if you want cheap ammo. What if you want military surplus ammo? There is nothing like that for 6.5, but there’s a ton of .308 out there. In fact, if you had an awesome .308 rifle, really good AR-10, really good M1A, or a Skar-17, there’s gonna be military surplus brass you’ll possibly be able to get your hands on. You could shoot ball ammo out of it. With your 6.5, you’re not doing that.
The other factor that gets brought up is gonna be barrel wear.
I’m reluctant on this one, and the reason I say that is, yeah, the 6.5 people are saying ‘you get 2000 rounds, 3000 rounds top’ from a barrel before it becomes even a match-grade barrel turns into an over 1 MOA barrel. And they’re like ‘well when shit-hit-the-fan that’s gonna suck’, you know, you get 2000 rounds through it and you’ve got something that’s gonna shoot, you know, eight-inch groups at 500 yards.
Well let me ask you a question: You really think, when shit hits the fan and you’ve had a lot of engagements with people, you’re low on ammo, that you’re gonna care that your awesome rifle only shoots eight-inch groups at 500 yards? That’s a killzone hit. That’s still potential headshots. Headshots! At 500 yards. That’s not terrible. Not precision, but not terrible. Furthermore, they’re right, but only if the shit hits the fan and you’ve already got a worn-out barrel. Because truth be told, in what scenario does anyone honestly think that they’re going to fire more than 2,000 rounds through their SHTF rifle? In a ROL scenario, or a revolution, or a single war or invasion, you think you’re still gonna be alive after putting 2000 rounds? You think you’re ever gonna get to that round count? Anybody really think that’s gonna happen? You’re gonna put 2000 rounds through your primary battle rifle and you’re still gonna be alive? Nuh-uh, there’s no way. Logistically impossible. Not gonna happen.
And you know, even if it did, maybe you could always have a backup AR-10 barrel, because you know eventually there’s gonna be extra .308 around. You could have an ar-10 barrel and a bolt carrier group anyways. So you know, that one I think is less of an issue. That’s an issue for match shooters, but again I would point out, look at what you’re paying. Look at what you’re paying for brass and stuff alone. I mean when you’re exceeding 2000 rounds through a precision rifle, how much money have you spent on ammo already? So for practice purposes this doesn’t matter. Because anyone who can afford to shoot 2000 rounds of match ammo through their 6.5, I don’t think they’re that worried about buying another $300 barrel when the barrel starts to wear out and lose accuracy.
You know, if you’ve got that type of money to throw into brass and everything, I dunno, buy an extra barrel and have it laying around. So you know, there’s your kicker. So as far as what it comes down to guys, I think cost and ammo versatility is still gonna be the downside of the 6.5. The barrel wear, I don’t think that matters in SHTF. That’s silly. That’s just a cost issue for target shooters.
But yeah, ultimately, the pros are gonna be, it’s just gonna be better past 500 yards, it’s gonna have lighter ammo, less recoil, pretty much similar ballistics; the downsides being cost of the ammo, and you’re not gonna be able to use a wide variety of ammo. You’re not gonna be able to use everything from hunting rounds to cheap ball ammo because it just doesn’t exist. There’s very little ammo available, there’s no military surplus, there’s nothing like that.
You’re probably… anyone with any sort of budget who’s messing with 6.5, you’re gonna be shooting all hand-loads, and most of those are probably gonna be match-grade bullets. Because you’re using match-grade brass anyways, it’s kinda stupid to load cheap rounds in it. It just doesn’t make sense. You’re already investing in a caliber that’s pretty much used for match-type stuff anyways. That’s kind of its only niche right now. So until cheaper brass comes out, there’s not really gonna be cheap ammo or a way to really even make cheap ammo for the 6.5. So that’s the downsides.
It’s up to you guys to decide what you like. And the reason I think some of that’s gonna be important is gonna be for people who aren’t necessarily wanting to build the highest in battle rifle… you’ve got to look at the fact that you’re gonna end up with a pretty expensive barrel, you’re gonna end up with some pretty expensive parts with 6.5 Creedmoor no matter what you do, you’re gonna end up with really expensive brass, and in some cases by the time you’re done, for a little more money you might’ve been able to get a second AR-10 and another 500 rounds of ammo by the time you’re done. So that’s just something to factor in on people’s budgets. The budget is a big deal.
Alright guys, but that’s really all I have to say on that today, I hope it’s been informative, and I will talk to you guys next time.
What do you all think? Is the 6.5 Creedmoor better suited than a .308 Winchester for SHTF?
Sources: Jason Blaha Firearm Enthusiast, HuntingGearGuy
1000 Yard Rifle for less than $500
There are many rifles that can shoot at 1000 yard, here’s a few popular ones thats out there:
.300 Winchester Magnum
338 Lapua Magnum
Oh, wait a minute, we’re looking for something under $500 range.
Well, check out Ruger American Predator rifle.
Its true that most F-class shooters rigs are customized and goes well into the thousands of dollars.
With the Predator, you can customize it till your broke or you can just get this at the bare minimum. This Predator can reach out and touch something at 1000 yards out. Another thing to note is that in this segment we won’t go into the scopes, this is for next time.
Here’s the Predator specs:
The rifle tested measured 3# 6.5oz from the factory
Capacity: Detachable Rotary Magazine: 3+1
Weight: 6.6 Pounds. As tested with scope and muzzle brake: 8.4 pounds
Stock: Lightweight synthetic with Power Bedding® integral bedding block system and soft rubber recoil pad. Also includes sling swivel studs.
Sights: None. Comes with factory installed rail.
Here’s the overall impression of shooting a Predator from a scale of 1 to 5, 5 being the best: Ergonomics – 4/5
The rifle has a very trim feel to it. There are some raised and textured ridges on the forearm and grip that provide for a positive grip. The recoil pad is very soft and grippy so it doesn’t slip on your shoulder. The bolt is easy to operate from the bench or other positions without lifting your head off the stock. The forend is built like a sporting rifle, not a bench rest gun, so some may not feel it is stable enough on the bench.
Accuracy – 5/5
Ruger fans can attest its reputation that this this gun shoots very well out of the box. Whatever else Ruger is doing, they are building great barrels for the American Predator series of rifles. To have a box stock rifle shoot ½ MOA groups with factory ammo and no break in is incredible.
Reliability – 5/5
No issues from anyhone. The cycling of feeding, extracting and firing are A plus. The safety functions as it should and the rifle can be easily single-loaded as well as fed from the magazine.
Customization – 5/5
The Predator rifles shoot and make a great rifle for those new to long-range shooting and for the seasoned as well. If you want a lighter trigger you can upgrade to a Timney trigger that also allows you to adjust take-up and over travel.
Looks – 4/5
Personally, the looks of the Predator is very cool. Some think the stock is too narrow and flimsy. Others don’t think the barrel is heavy enough. Remember, this is an economy rifle that shoots very well. It is trim enough to carry in the woods and accurate enough to give anyone with a custom long-range rifle a run for their money.
Price – 5/5
For a rifle with the features the Predator has and the accuracy this rifle exhibits you are getting a great deal in the $400-480 range. I would not hesitate to buy this rifle to build up a great little back country hunting rifle.
Overall Rating – 5/5
The money this is just an outstanding rifle. Period. Hunting, plinking, or getting your feet wet in long-range precision shooting, Ruger has delivered a great rifle at a competitive price point.
6.5 or 6mm?
Most long range shooters are familiar shooting the Ruger American Predator with a 6.5 Creedmoor, but most aren’t familiar with the 6mm.
Whats the differences?
With the 6mm there is less felt recoil, which allows the shooter to follow bullet trace and impact with greater ease.
The Ruger American Predator has an adjustable trigger, threaded muzzle, 5R rifling and patented Ruger Power Bedding, this rifle redefines out of the box value experience.
Regardless of your intent, the Predator will likely meet the accuracy standards of many shooters.
The Predator has a fairly light barrel and the stock is probably not as stiff as some would like. The barrel is free-floated, accurate and it’s threaded to accept muzzle brakes or suppressors.
Ruger stock model Marksman Adjustable trigger system can adjust from three to five pounds.
With all the great cartridges, bullets, and rifles being built today that allow for accurate long-range shooting there is no reason to stand on the sidelines and watch.
The Ruger American Predator and a quality scope (Vortex) combination allows any shooter serious about learning the intricacies of long-range shooting a viable platform to start from without spending thousands of dollars.