Why the .308 is the best Cartridge

Since its 1952 debut, this round has aged well even as hot new ones have come online, thanks to
usefulness across military platforms, widespread availability and having downed a deer or two since.

Like a lot of you out there, I read a lot of gun magazines. Periodically, most magazines run an “everything old is new again” article about a particular weapon system or round. You know the ones I’m talking about; articles with catchy titles like “Best Revolvers for Combat.” What? I like a nice wheel gun as much as the next guy, but its time as a primary sidearm for combat has long gone.
In limited circumstances, such as a hammerless .38 as a last-ditch backup, it still has a tactical role. But by and large, the revolver’s gun-fighting days are behind it (regardless of how fast you can speed load it).
I can also make an argument that anything with an exposed hammer is also yesterday’s technology, but that’s a rant for another day. Another article that pops up from time to time is the utility of a stagecoach-style shotgun for home defense.
I’m not sure what person in their right mind would opt for a two shot weapon for home defense. Like the revolver, this seems like a great idea when you are at the range or tinkering (i.e. playing) with your guns at home. It will seem like a terrible idea when some bad guy is throwing down large volumes of lead at you from a handgun or rifle and you can only respond with two to six shots at a time before needing a reload.
Sorry, folks, sometimes the truth hurts With all that being said, old doesn’t necessarily equal obsolete. Sometimes something appears to be the best at everything, until it’s supplanted or replaced by other items that do specific things better.
Such is the case with the much maligned .308 round. It has lost some popularity in recent years, but it is arguably the best all purpose rifle round ever designed.

THE .308 HAS been around a long time. It was designed in 1952. It was the cartridge that powered the M14 Battle Rifle, the primary long gun for servicemen throughout the ’50s and well into the ’70s with National Guard and Reserve units.
It was the go-to round for sniper rifles, used extensively in every major conflict since Vietnam. It still feeds the military’s primary belt-fed weapon system, the M240, and is still the standard .30-caliber round for NATO.
So, what happened? Why did the .308 become the “old man’s cartridge”?
The .308 is really good at a lot of things, but other rounds are better in specific roles. Where the .308 is a jack of all trades, other rounds designed for one purpose have done a better job in the roles they were designed for. But none can fill all roles like the .308 can.

No doubt that in battle, the .223 is king – here’s an M4 – but the smaller bullets have their drawbacks.

In the combat/close quarters battle role, the .223 is king. There is no denying it. When the M16 replaced the M14 as our nation’s primary service weapon in the 1960s, it permanently made the .308 a less acceptable combat round. The .223 round is lighter, meaning you can carry more of it.
More importantly, though, the recoil is more manageable, an important factor in combat. Select-fire M14s were notoriously difficult to control on full auto, whereas the M16 firing the .223 is much better. There are other factors at play here, such as weapon design, but that doesn’t change the fact that the bigger bullet kicks more.
In combat, he who puts the most rounds into his opponent generally wins. Recoil has an adverse effect on this. There are other specialty rounds like the .300 Blackout and .458 SOCOM that are recent developments that are also great CQB rounds. Their large caliber results in significant tissue damage and they marry up well with the AR platform.
But where all of these rounds fail in comparison to the .308 is range.
The .300 Blackout and .458 SOCOM aren’t designed for long distance, but a .223 round with a high velocity should be able to reach out and touch. It doesn’t, not when compared to the .308.
A .223 coming from a long-barreled M16 is good out to around 600 yards, less with a short-barreled M4. A .308 round is effective out to about 1,000 yards. Big difference.
Another shortcoming of the .223 when used with an AR platform is how finicky it is with regard to twist rates and barrel lengths. Since the round is small it needs to tumble or break apart on impact with a target to do a lot of damage. When a .223 round is fired through the wrong barrel length/twist combo, it “icepicks” targets, going straight through and leaving a minimal wound cavity.
A .308 round is a significantly bigger round. Bullets are measured in grain weights. An average .223 round weighs around 55 grains, but a .308 is about 160 grains, almost three times as heavy. That results in harder hits down range that are less susceptible to barrel length and twist issues. The .308 is less affected by wind than its lighter cousin.
This also makes it a good dual-purpose round for CQB, as well as sniping.
The .308 round works well in an AR platform. For every major .223 tactical rifle made, there is a .308 caliber variant. SCAR, HK and Galil all have .223 variants as well as a big brother .308. Still not the greatest on full auto but significantly better than firing it from the M14.

FOR MANY YEARS the .308 was the primary sniper caliber for military and law enforcement. Bolt-action Remington 700s were the staple of Army and Marine snipers for many years. I carried a long-barreled 700 as a SWAT team sniper and found it more than adequate for what I needed.
During the Global War on Terror it was found that engagements were at longer distances than previously encountered. The .308 had a hard time zapping targets over a grid square away. Weapons like the .338 Lapua came into their own.
A good .338 Lapua fired from a quality rifle can get hits at 1,500 yards and further. That’s 50 percent farther than .308. The .338 not only travels farther, but has a flatter trajectory. In a side-by-side sniper competition, the .338 Lapua is superior.
Where the .308 has an advantage is in flexibility and modularity. There is a limited number of semi-auto .338 rifles out there but they aren’t made in the same quantity, nor have they seen as much use in combat, as .308 rifles.

The old man M14 has been an active participant in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Many Vietnam era weapons were dusted off and used in their old wooden stock configuration. Others were modified with high-quality adjustable synthetic stocks, married with high-quality optics, turning them into excellent sniper weapons.
AR platforms such as the SR-25 have been in the war since the beginning. Many snipers prefer them because they can double as combat rifle when needed, albeit one that’s a little ungainly due to weight and long barrel length.
A bolt-action gun doesn’t lend itself to building clearing or close-quarters gun fights with opponents armed with AK-47s. An SR-25 type rifle also prevents the need to carry multiple weapon systems.
Carrying a bolt gun in a drag bag on your back while using an AR platform to defend yourself, with incompatible rounds, does not result in an optimal tactical situation.
As mentioned previously, the .308 is the standard NATO round. In a pinch, a sniper could pull a few rounds of .308 off a belt of machinegun ammo and use it, with the understanding that it wouldn’t be as accurate as a match-grade round.
Traditionally, in the United Kingdom sniper ammo is in fact machine gun ammo. The first round produced in the lot is reserved for sniping, while the rest are linked together and fed to machine guns.
Using nonstandard ammo like the .338 Lapua presents logistical issues as well. Anywhere the U.S. military goes, it brings .308 with it. It’s a common enough cartridge that it can be found in most other countries too. Try finding .338 Lapua if your logisticians haven’t forecasted the need for it and ensured it is well stocked.
There is no such thing as “overnight delivery” in many parts of the world.
The .338 Lapua isn’t going away, but it’s important to note that it’s a round designed for a particular type of combat. It really has come into its own in Afghanistan where almost all engagements are at a very long distance, unparalleled in previous American combat experience. So, in a way, it’s a round designed to fit a particular type of warfare (or war).
Which explains why the .308 was the preeminent sniper round up until that time.
Outside the tactical realm, .308 is a really good hunting round for medium to large game. It’s a safe bet that .308 (along with .30-30 and .30-06) has accounted for more North American game than all of the other calibers combined. I don’t think I’d go elephant hunting with it, but I’d feel confident using it on most large game.
So, despite its reputation as the old man in town, .308 is the best all-purpose round available. It works in every major assault weapons system, it is compatible with belt-fed weapons, it still functions well as a sniper weapon, and it can be found just about everywhere. So, this old man recommends it. ?

Story and Photos by Nick Perna
Editor’s note: Nick Perna is a sergeant with the Redwood City Police Department in northern California. He has spent much of his career as a gang and narcotics investigator. He served on a multi-jurisdictional SWAT team as an entry team member, sniper and team leader. He previously served as a paratrooper in the US Army and is a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. He has a master’s degree from the University of San Francisco.

Eight Barrel’s worth of 9mm Fun

In the same state as the first one was tested, Tippmann Armory makes a modern take on the famous Gatling Gun.


The story of the Gatling gun dates back to the Civil War when Dr. Richard Gatling incorporated the best features of the earlier Agar and Ripley guns into what would become universally famous as the Gatling gun.
Constant refinement resulted in a magnificently reliable design, where turning a crank handle operates a set of beveled gears to transmit this rotation to the main shaft, which carries the bolt cylinder, carrier, barrels and bolts.
As the barrels turn, each cartridge drops into its corresponding groove of the carrier from the feed. The spiral cam surfaces engage the bolt and it pushes the round into the chamber. The cocking lug of the firing pin is shoved against the cam as the bolt goes forward, compressing its spring, which then releases as it passes the cam and fires the cartridge.
The continued rotation brings the bolt to the rear. The extractor hooks pull the empty case out of the chamber until the case hits the ejector and is knocked out of the gun.
Each barrel is fired in turn when it reaches the lower right hand position and the operating cycle of the bolt and barrel assembly takes one revolution of the shaft.

The ammunition loads at the 11 o’clock position, it fires at the 4 o’clock position, and ejects at the 7 o’clock position. Since there are multiple barrels, a high rate of fire is possible and it is easy to fire at a rate of 600 rounds per minute. The maximum amount of fire at one time was 4,000 rounds, or about 10 minutes of firing. After that, ammunition in the feed could cook off.
In 1893, Gatling patented an electric motor-driven gun that fired at a rate of 3,000 rounds a minute. In recent years, that gun was resurrected as the 20mm Vulcan and the Navy’s Phalanx Weapon system. What’s old is new. Gatling even patented a gas operated version to compete with the new automatic machineguns being invented.

FAR AHEAD OF its time, the Gatling gun was misunderstood and not properly employed by the military in the 19th Century. General Custer had four 90-pound tripod-mounted .45-70 Gatling guns that could have resulted in the Battle of the Little Bighorn being a massacre of Sioux Indians instead of 7th Cavalry men, had he not left them behind. But then Custer was known for his brashness and dash, not his brains.

It was not until the Spanish-American War in Cuba that they were properly employed in the assault. Captain John H. “Gatling Gun” Parker had been opposed by his superior when he wanted to organize a Gatling gun unit against the Spanish in Santiago. But he went over his head to General Joe Wheeler, who authorized it. His use of the Gatling guns was so successful that the high command of the Army commissioned him to “devise a form of organization for machineguns to be attached to regiments of infantry.”

At the battle of San Juan Heights, his Gatling guns were used on both San Juan Hill and Kettle Hill, providing covering fire for the American forces. At a range of 600 to 800 yards, Parker’s three Gatling guns raked the heights with 18,000 rounds fired over an 8½-minute period. Trooper Langdon stated that they would never have been able to take Kettle Hill without the Gatling guns.
Captain Boughton found the trenches at the top of San Juan Hill filled with the dead and dying victims of Parker’s three Gatlings, while the open ground behind the trenches was filled with Spaniards cut down by the Gatlings as they attempted to retreat.
Once in possession of the Heights, the Americans braced for the expected counterattack. It was not long coming. Parker had brought up two of his Gatling guns and sited them near the crest of San Juan Hill. Only one was in shouting distance when a force of 600 Spaniards was
sighted about 600 yards away. Parker ordered Sergeant Green to open fire.
The results were devastating. There were only 40 Spanish survivors. Parker then moved the guns to avoid counter battery fire by Spanish artillery. At a range of 2,000 yards, they engaged the crew of a Spanish heavy artillery piece, killing or scattering the lot of them.
Colonel Theodore Roosevelt said that he thought Parker deserved more credit than any other one man in the entire campaign. That’s an understatement. Considering how many casualties the surviving Spaniards, with their M93 Mauser 7mm rifles, inflicted on the American troops making an uphill frontal assault, it is obvious that the attacks would have been failures without the Gatling guns and there would probably never have been a President Theodore Roosevelt.
The obsolete tactic of having troops make a human wave assault on an entrenched enemy had proved disastrous during the Civil War when tried on troops equipped only with muzzleloaders, and to do it against modern Mausers was suicidal. The excessive casualties of the assaults on the San Juan Heights led to the adoption of the American version of the Mauser rifle, the M1903 Springfield. A large part of this was to divert attention away from the American commanders’ cavalier attitude toward the lives of their men with their obsolete tactics.
Parker went on to an illustrious career, finishing as a brigadier general covered with medals for valor in the Spanish-American War and World War I.

THE GATLING FARED better with the British, where it was a major factor in civilizing their native opponents as they set up their colonial empire. It was decisive in many far-flung battles, where it was a bigger force multiplier for the British than the breechloading rifle had been, and that’s saying a lot.
They saw service first in the Anglo-Ashanti Wars in Africa in 1873. Before long, Matabele and Zulu tribesmen were being mowed down like wheat with the Gatling gun. Further north in Africa, it did yeoman service on attacking Bedouins and Mahdists.
They played a major role in Kitchener’s defeat of the Mahdist forces. If General with them, Khartoum would not have fallen at the start of that war. As late as the Boxer Rebellion in China, a relief column rushing to try to rescue a British outpost with little hope of finding them alive was surprised to find that a very busy Gatling gun had preserved the lot of them.
Gatling guns continued in service in the U.S. and U.K. until 1911, when they were declared obsolete. They came back several decades later in the aforementioned weapons systems, as well as the 30mm tank buster cannon on the A-10 Warthog antitank airplane. Obviously they weren’t obsolete after all.
Due to their size and weight, the Gatling gun has proved a problem for gun collectors. They do tend to take up the whole room when mounted on an artillery carriage and most wives are not in favor of them as the centerpiece of den décor.
You need a horse to pull that artillery carriage and they don’t let horses on the roads in most places nowadays. Some of the cartridges they chamber are more than a little expensive. While those in .30-06 and .30-40 Krag or .45-70 are bad enough to buy ammo for, you are in
big trouble if you want Gatling gun shooting quantities of .50-70 or .577-450. Heaven help you if your Gatling is in .58 rimfire or 1-inch Gatling.
You’d better be rich for those because custom-making that ammo is going to cost enough to make a Vanderbilt weep. You will have to go overseas to get .58 rimfire ammunition made because the laws in the U.S. make it impractical to make big rimfire cartridges. But the manufacturing hazards are enough that you will still have trouble finding someone to make it for you, no matter how rich you are.
You might have to even build your own factory to make the priming compound and the rest of the cartridge. Better be rich, m’boy. Really rich.

ENTER TIPPMANN ARMORY with the solution: a small 27-inch-long, eight barrel Gatling Gun that stands 18 inches high on its wheels and is 20 inches wide. It weighs 60 pounds. A tripod is available. It is small enough to be displayed on your coffee table or desk and it is a real attention-getter.
This little gem shoots regular 9mm Luger ammo in 32-round Glock model 19 magazines. Now you can afford to have some fun with a Gatling gun! Fun is what this little gun is all about. There is nothing more fun to shoot than a machinegun, but they are heavily restricted under the National Firearms Act of 1934. Well, Gatling guns are exempt from the NFA machinegun category. They can be sold just like any manually operated rifle on a standard Form 4473. The only thing to remember is where the dealer fills out their part of the form. On section
B #16, mark “Other firearm” and under Section 27, label it simply “Firearm.”

Gatling guns are designed to operate with very little wear on their moving parts as the gun operates. This makes for a very long life. The parts of the Tippmann gun that face wear or need strength are made of nickel plated 4140 steel. These include the barrels, bolts, cam at the firing point, gears, and firing pin. The frame and rails are made of 1018 cold rolled steel.
All of the shock of firing is transferred to the frame, so there is very little stress on the gun’s working parts. The front sight ring and the cascabel are brass. To save weight, the turret and cylinder are aluminum. The carriage is wood. Rubber tires were used instead of wood wheels to make it clear that this gun was intended to shoot. They also are easier on desk and coffee table tops than the traditional iron-shod wooden wheels when time comes to put the gun up.
Nine-millimeter Luger was chosen for the caliber because it is the cheapest available ammo, next to .22 LR. If you encounter a dud, it will be ejected as the crank turns and there will be a momentary skip in the burst as one round is missed. Thanks to the improvements in ammunition in the 1920s, the dreaded hangfire is almost unknown today. A hangfire is when a cartridge does not fire immediately when the primer is struck. They were common before the 1920s and were the bane of all manually operated machineguns, as a cartridge going off outside the chamber meant a serious jam.
This was one of the reasons the automatic machinegun was so welcome. It stops when the cartridge does not fire. Wait a few seconds and then eject. No more problem. While a 32-shot magazine is a lot of bullets, there are a couple of other options available. ProMag makes a 50-round drum magazine for the Glock Model 19 and this works well with the Tippmann Gatling Gun, as does the Beta Company’s 100-round twin drum for the Glock 19.

The ProMag 50-round drum sells for $99.49, while the Beta Co. 100-round twin drum sells for $350. The Tippmann Gatling Gun sells for $5,000. That’s because there is a small output made by 20 men, as opposed to Colt mass-producing them for a large government order.
Workmanship is first-class. The Tippmanns have been manufacturing in Fort Wayne, Indiana, for three generations. Coincidentally, the very first Gatling gun was first test-fired in 1862 100 miles south of them, in Indianapolis. Over the years, they have made refrigeration units, paintball guns, air guns, miniature Browning machineguns in .22 LR and .22 Magnum, rolling block rifles and other items.
In 1984, they made 24 half scale Gatling guns in .380 caliber. They have the experience you want and need in a gun maker. Equally important, they have always been known for their customer service. That’s how a firm lasts through three generations. Reputation.
While the Tippmann Gatling Gun is intended as a fun shooting gun, one look at the newsreels of the Bahamas after Hurricane Dorian showing residents formed into militias and standing at barricades to defend against looters is enough to show how welcome this little Gatling gun would have been there.

That is a common situation after any disaster of this magnitude. A warning burst at a rate of fire of 500 to 600 rounds per minute is a lot more persuasive than single shots on a mob. If persuasion doesn’t work, the effect of that rate of fire on attackers has been well proven for over 146 years, since the British first used them on massed native attackers.
That $5,000 price tag suddenly seems awfully cheap when you need this kind of firepower in order for you and your family to stay alive. The Tippmann is a quality piece of work that will not fail you. Just make sure you have plenty of magazines and ammo.

Editor’s note: For more on the Gatling Gun, see tippmannarmory.com.

‘Stackin’ ’Em Deep and Sellin’ ’Em Cheap!’

Kentucky’s Centerfire Systems serves up bargains on guns, gear, surplus, ammo and so much more.

With the slogan “Stackin’ ’em deep and sellin’ ’em cheap!”, Centerfire
Systems, Inc. in central Kentucky is known as a leading value retailer among enthusiasts of all shooting sports and vintage military firearms. In fact, the company is the go to source for nearly all things AK-47 for
the home-build hobbyist.
Company founder Mike Davis was a bargain hunter extraordinaire and got into selling firearms as a side job after seeing one change hands twice
at a local flea market, netting the middleman a quick $20. In the mid-
1980s, Davis’s buying savvy and hard work put him in a unique position to take advantage of a rapid succession of great opportunities, beginning with the influx of astonishingly inexpensive, and high-quality, Chinese SKS rifles.
He knew from experience that gun show buyers characteristically spent upwards of $500 on a firearm, but rarely bought more than one new gun
a year. It wasn’t that they didn’t want to buy more guns; they just didn’t have enough disposable income.

Davis determined that the imported SKS rifles could be packaged with 100 rounds of ammunition and a few accessories and still sell for around $100 – an offer just about everyone could afford and hardly anyone could
pass up. Customers couldn’t get enough of them and he made $20 on each sale. In 1985, Davis established Centerfire Systems Inc., and soon afterward, a second company, Advanced Technology Inc. (ATI), to make molded plastic sporting and tactical stocks for the SKS rifle.
In those early years, there were a lot of deals to be found on imported
military surplus and firearms:
Norinco AKs, MAK 90s, Russian Makarov and Chinese Tokarev pistols, Mosin Nagants, Egyptian Hakim and Swedish Ljungman rifles, magazines, parts, and what amounted to a mountain of surplus ammunition and accoutrements. By keeping his prices low and margins small, Davis moved volumes of product and the business grew. Davis’s son-in-law, Shane Coe, took over Centerfire Systems’ operations as owner in 2004 and Davis sold his plastics molding company in 2008.

WHEN IT COMES to rooting out bargains and identifying value, Shane Coe was cut from the same cloth as his father-in-law and the business continued to grow. Coe readily admits that he’s actually not much of a shooter or hunter. His thrill comes from the hunt for the deals that let Centerfire Systems deliver real value to their customers. Coe still finds caches of surplus dating back before World War I, stashed away decades ago. His quests have taken him to some surreal places.
Back in the late ’80s, he would make mid-January visits to a towering
brick 19th century locomotive repair shop that Vermont-based Century Arms used as their warehouse. Coe found that he could have the run of
the place at that time of year because no one else wanted to be there in the bitter cold of a Vermont winter.
The largely unlit and completely unheated ancient structure was packed with tons of military surplus just waiting to be rediscovered, but it was so cold that condensation that dripped from the ceiling turned to snowflakes before hitting the floor! For Coe, it doesn’t matter where the deal is or if it’s big or small; if it represents value he can pass
on to the customer, he’ll explore it.

When I visited Centerfire Systems in August, staffers were cleaning,
checking headspace, and grading hundreds of pre-1898 Turkish Army Mauser rifles they had procured when the “Golden Age” importer Springfield Sporters closed their doors for good last year. Reworked in the 1930s to chamber 7.92x57mm at Ankara arsenal, the rifles had been warehoused since the 1960s and are rich with the history of the Ottoman Empire. These Model 1893 Johnny Turks have seen their hundredth birthday and they show their age.
Their once blued or polished bright steel now wears a mellow grey patina. Since these Mausers were originally built before 1898, they can be shipped direct to the customer for $180 with no Federal Firearms License transfer needed. Additionally, for an extra $20, Centerfire will “hand-select” a betterthan-average rifle for you. Older gun collectors will automatically look upon any “hand-select” charge as a scam to get a little extra money out of the customer for shipping just-the-next-one-on-the-pile. Coe understands this, which is why he ensures that the whole lot is inspected and sorted before any are sold. “If you
pay extra,” Coe says, “you’re going to get that extra value knowing that your rifle is headspaced within specified tolerances and was among the prettier belles at the ball.”
Another one of Coe’s amazing recent finds are thousands of Brazilian M1908 Mauser bayonets. Pulled from service in the 1950s, they were
packed in grease and crated up, brass mounted leather scabbards and all. A large wooden surplus crate of them sits on the retail store’s floor, along with a roll of paper towels, so buyers can clean, inspect and select their own for just $50 each. I picked one at random and wiped it off to find a near perfect, untarnished blade. A century old Mauser bayonet in very good shape with its scabbard for only $50 is an outstanding and totally unexpected value in 2019.

ONE OF THE largest product groups where Coe still sees tremendous value for the consumer is the AK-47 parts and accessories market. The earlier importations of hundreds of thousands of AK variant parts kits from Eastern European demilled guns has spawned a rise in domestic AK component manufacturing. Home-build hobbyists can now use these American made parts and accessories to turn those foreign parts kits into USC 922r-compliant semiautomatic sporting arms. Despite the ready availability of American-made compliance parts and build tools, the majority of AK parts kits sold are likely to go unbuilt because the purchaser is intimidated by certain facets of the project.
Populating the barrel (installing rear sight base, gas block and front sight base) and installing and correctly headspacing the barrel in the front trunnion can be particularly alarming to the neophyte home-builder. To address this all-too-common obstacle, Coe offers some AK parts kits where these moderately difficult yet safety-critical processes have already been done.

For example, Centerfire Systems has brand-new-production, semiauto, Romanian PM-63 AK-47 parts kits, with a factory-new Romanian chrome-lined barrel already populated and correctly headspaced for $599.99.With plans to offer their other AK-variant parts kits the same way, there’s no excuse for not building your own semiauto AK rifle or pistol.
Along with a large assortment of AK parts, magazines and accessories, Centerfire also offers a wide range of stamped AK receivers from Kalashnikov USA, DDI, IO, High Standard-Interarms, and Ohio Ordnance Works. All are priced from $29.99 to $69.99. Some even have the trigger guard and magazine release already installed. There are gunsmith special bargains too, starting at only $9.99 (if you can tolerate the fairly easy tasks of cleaning up some rust, hardening the pin holes and installing the center support rivet yourself).
These are the kinds of great buys that make the Centerfire Systems website so much fun to explore. You never know what bargain you’ll find.
Customers who provide an e-mail find out about the newest deals first:
an unissued Russian M40 steel helmet for $39.99, new shotguns for $120
each, Sightmark red-dot sights going for less than cost at $100, Persian
Army Mauser rifles from the 1930s for $399.99, a 2,500-round brick of
Armscor .22 LR ammo for $100, etc.

ORIGINALLY A MAIL-ORDER company, Centerfire Systems went online in 2007 and then opened their retail gun store for the surrounding Lexington, Kentucky, market in 2015.
Five customer service representatives are available six days a week to assist with customers’ orders. You won’t get lost in a frustrating labyrinth of automated phone prompts here. A real person picks up the phone every time to get you the help or answers you need. The retail store is adjacent to the phone bank for additional technical assistance as well. Qualified Glock and AR armorers staff the gun shop. Their
off-site warehouses are stacked floor to ceiling with thousands of different inventory items.

If you find something on their website that you want to check out in person, you’ll want to call 48 hours in advance before you visit the store so they have time to bring samples to the showroom.
“These are great times for the customer,” Coe says. “Gun sales have
slowed dramatically since the election and prices have dropped accordingly, which lets us make great deals on firearms, ammunition, magazines, military surplus and tactical gear.
Centerfire Systems can pass those values and savings on to our customers at prices lower than many of them have ever seen.”
Check out centerfiresystems.com, sign up for their e-mail sale alerts, or call (800) 950-1231.

Glock 41 – “The Practical Tactical Side of the 45 Auto”

The year is 1904 and from the inner workings of John Moses Browning’s, mind a cartridge emerged. It was the great 45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), 45 Auto or an even more modern nickname “The Flying Dump Truck”. The US military had been buying and using various calibers while searching for the perfect combination of size and power. Having moved from a 250 grain 45 Long Colt to a smaller 150 grain 38 Long Colt during this transitional period many unfortunate and very deadly failures to stop occurred. While the light cartridge was easier to control, it didn’t yield the necessary effects on the target. This lighter bullet combined with a smaller diameter left our fighting men with something that they couldn’t depend on when the chips were down as handgun bullets during this period were not designed to expand.

So Thompson-LaGarde commissioned to study the effectiveness of various calibers and bullets. This led the US Calvary to request that a new handgun be developed for their use and it had to be .45caliber Interesting enough, the first loading of the 45ACP was a 200gr bullet, but after a few revisions a 230gr, bullet moving at 850 ft/per sec was chosen. This loading is only slightly less powerful than the 45 Long Colt that was deemed to be outdated. Since it’s inception the 45 ACP has been known for its knockdown power. Some of the claims were exgarrated but it has been proven to be a fight stopper if the shooter does their part.

Fast forward to 1991, a span of 87 years, we find the the 45ACP being introduced in a state of the art fighting pistol. Fixing what some believed to be the downfall of existing 45cal. pistols, the magazine capacity was increased to 13 rounds providing enough firepower to sustain a fight. I think that the 1911 has enough capacity to do this,but the more bullets the better. This pistol is the Glock Model 21, a full size polymer fighting pistol that provides a modern corrosion resistant platform launching the big powerful bullets.

Some people found the thickness of the G21 to be too wide for all hand sizes. To alleviate this somewhat, in 2007 Glock introduced the SF or Short framed versions of their large frame pistols. These SF versions didn’t change the width but decreased the distance from the back of the grip to the trigger by .098in. They also shortened the heel of the pistol by .16 inch. This allows the pistol to be operated by people with smaller hands.

In 2010 Glock took another step forward to modernize an already hi-tech design by releasing the Generation 4 Glocks (Gen4) across their whole product line. This allowed the the use of user installed backstraps to customize grip size to the shooter. These even include 2 with pronounced beavertails. The shooter can also forego the use of any backstrap, this will give the smallest overall grip size. The Gen4 also uses a reversible magazine catch to make the weapons more user friendly for left handed shooters along with a recoil taming dual spring setup.

Glock has never been slow to produce products geared to law enforcement. The Practical / Tactical models were a result of that offered in 9mm and 40cal. these were the G34/35. They feature a slide and barrel which is .8in longer than the service models. This allows faster follow up shots and a longer sight radius. These 2 features also lend themselves to the competitive world. For years the 45 shooters wanted the advantage of the longer platform in both the tactical and competition world. The longer barrel would allow the already good performance numbers to get better by providing higher velocity and enhanced accuracy do to the longer sight radius. Well Glock listened,and in 2014 they introduced the Glock 41, basically a G34/35 length gun in 45 ACP with a 5.3in barrel.

The slide of the G21 has always been fairly wide and really blocky. The G41 uses a slide almost the same width as the 9/40/357 guns, providing a slimmer profile. While providing a slimmer profile, it also lets the longer weapon weigh in at only .7 of an ounce heavier than the standard G21. I will admit I have been a 9mm Glock user with no use for other calibers, but the G41 fits me very well. In fact, I hope to get a 10mm version of it making it a perfect woods gun for anything in North America for anything on 2 or 4 legs.

On to the G41 experience, I find it balances well while allowing me to shoot a wide variety of bullet weights from 165gr to 230gr. I don’t really find any recoil difference shooting range ammo (FMJ) or self defense (JHP). The gun just gobbles them up ! My particular gun likes the heavier bullets, which is fine with me. This gun will never be a hot weather concealed carry gun for me, but I would carry it in 3 seasons without reservations. I will be providing you an updated review once I run the round count up. I currently have 200 rounds thru it and have a plan for a 500 round afternoon in the near future. I will also be reviewing some gear that I have for the G41, holsters etc. I will also try to shoot a wide range of ammo thru it also.

As of right now I can’t find much to complain about, it’s a Glock you just load it and shoot it.

Michael Yates ~ All Things Tactical

UPS/Fedex/USPS Suggestions for Shipping Firearms Guide

Updated 8-15-2019
There are two versions you can view, theres the video below shared by Youtuber TheGunCollective and the more detail text.

Here’s some suggestions for shipping firearms from UPS, USPS and Fedex:

  • USPS
    Allowed arms for shipping:
    Handguns: a generally restricted class comprised of pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person. Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are non-mailable unless:
    Mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm.
    Certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest.
    Classified as air guns that do not fall within the definition of firearms. Note: these must contain a verified adult signature.
    Mailed between authorized vendors and manufacturers.
    Unloaded rifles and shotguns: can be mailed however the mailer will need to verify, by opening or by certification, that the rifle or shotgun is unloaded and eligible for mailing. Subject to state, territory, or district regulations, rifles and shotguns may be mailed without restriction when sent in the same state.
    Rifle: a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in length.
    Shotgun: a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 18 inches or more in length.

    Specific postage is required:

    Include a “Return Service Requested” endorsement.
    Ship using Priority Mail Express.
    Signature is required and must be used at delivery or by Registered Mail. „Learn more about USPS signature confirmations when you ship with ShippingEasy.
    Packing requirements:

    No markings of any kind that indicate the nature of the contents may be placed on the outside wrapper or container of any mailpiece containing firearms.

    All mailable guns must be properly and securely packaged. Learn more.

    Special conditions apply in some situations:

    Recreational hunting:
    If you plan on hunting outside of your state, you may mail your certified firearm to yourself.

    The package must be:
    Addressed to the owner.
    Include the “in the care of” endorsement immediately preceding the name of whoever will hold your weapon until you arrive. For added security, you can add delivery confirmation.
    Be opened by the rifle or shotgun owner only.

    Antique firearms are defined as any muzzle loading rifle/shotgun/pistol, which is designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.

    They must be:
    Mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm.
    Certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest.

  • UPS
    UPS has special restrictions on who individuals can ship firearms to, as well as who an individual can receive them from. Currently, shipment and receiving are limited to:

    Licensed importers
    Licensed manufacturers
    Licensed dealers
    Licensed collectors
    Only the above licensed personnel are able to use UPS to ship firearms to government agencies. In addition, these transactions are subject to federal, state and local law.

    Firearms may be shipped by UPS via the following:

    a UPS Scheduled Pickup Account
    a UPS Customer Center using the following services:
    UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically UPS Next Day Air® Early
    UPS Next Day Air®
    UPS Next Day Air Saver®
    Visit UPS for more information on packing your firearm and special procedures for ammunition and silencers.

  • FedEx
    FedEx will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between certain areas served in the U.S.

    Limited to:
    Licensed importers
    Licensed manufacturers
    Licensed dealers
    Licensed collectors
    Law enforcement agencies of the U.S., any department or agency
    Law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof.
    Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, FedEx will ship firearms from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

    When shipping, the person shipping the firearm is required to notify FedEx that the shipment contains a firearm.

    The following rules apply:
    The outside of the package cannot have any indication of the contents.
    The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
    The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws.
    The firearm cannot contain any ammunition either loaded or in the same package. Learn more.

Other suggestions from other sites:
Overview (gunbroker.com)
This guide provides information about Federal Laws, step that must be followed, and notes on using specific shippers when shipping firearms. This page is oriented toward the seller of an item. If you need information about how to buy a firearm through GunBroker.com, please refer to our Buyer’s Tutorial.

This page contains information oriented toward persons shipping firearms within the United States. For sellers located outside the United States, please see our Import / Export page.

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL) only. The recipient must have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).

Here is exactly what the ATF ‘Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide’ (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

‘Antique’ firearms need not be shipped to a licensed dealer. These can be shipped directly to the buyer. An antique firearm is a firearm built in or before 1898, or a replica thereof. The exact ATF definition of an antique firearm is:
Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Knives, air guns, accessories, and most gun parts need not be shipped to an FFL holder. We say most gun parts because each firearm contains at least one part that the ATF considers a firearm. This part is typically the part that contains the serial number. This part must be treated as a complete firearm when shipping the item.

Ammunition must be clearly identified as ‘Small Arms Ammunition’ on the outside of the box. Some shippers treat ammunition as dangerous or hazardous materials.

The section of the US Code that governs modern firearms is called Commerce in Firearms and Ammunition (CFA). This code is available online at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_09/27cfr478_09.html

When in doubt, we suggest arranging for transfer through a licensed dealer. Violation of the CFA is a felony and penalties for violation of it are severe.

Federal and State Law Resources
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) has a very comprehensive site containing information about the various Federal and state laws regulating firearms. Please refer to the ATF information for legal questions regarding firearms.
ATF Home page: http://www.atf.gov
ATF Compilation of the various state laws: http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5.pdf
ATF Firearms Division Main Page: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/

Shipment by Unlicensed Persons
Any shipper who does not have a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be an ‘unlicensed person’. This section contains information on how unlicensed persons can ship firearms. If you have an FFL, please skip to the next section for shipping suggestions.

The most important thing to know is that you must only ship guns to a licensed dealer. If the buyer is not a licensed dealer, he will have to make arrangements to ship the item to a dealer in his state.

Before you ship a gun, the buyer must fax or mail you a copy of the dealer’s signed FFL license. You can only ship the gun to the address on the license. You must inform the carrier that the package contains a firearm. Of course, the firearm cannot be shipped loaded; ammunition may not be shipped in the same box. You should take the copy of the signed FFL with you when you take the item to be shipped in case the shipper wishes to see it.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: An unlicensed person can ship a rifle or shotgun by US Mail. Unlicensed persons cannot ship a handgun by US Mail. Postal regulations allow the Post Office to open your package for inspection. Ammunition cannot be shipped by US Mail. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx Express: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

FedEx Ground: FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition. Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

Shipment by Licensed Persons
Any shipper who has a Federal Firearms License (FFL) is considered to be a ‘licensed person’. This section contains information on how licensed persons can ship firearms. If you do not have an FFL, please see the previous section of this page for shipping instructions.

Since licensed persons are responsible for knowing the law, we are going to assume that you already understand the CGA and know the applicable Federal, state, and local laws.

Notes on specific shippers:

US Mail: Licensed persons can ship a rifle, shotguns, or handguns by US Mail. In fact, we suggest that you use the USPS as it is now the most cost-effective way to ship a handgun. To ship a rifle or shotgun, you need only inform the Post Office that the package contains a firearm. A licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer can ship a handgun via the US Post Office if the licensed dealer fills out a US Post Office Form PS 1508 and files it with the local Post Office branch where the handgun is to be shipped. You can search the US Post Office Postal Explorer site for specific USPS regulations regarding firearms and ammunition.

FedEx Express: FedEx will only ship firearms via their Priority Overnight service. Ammunition must be shipped as hazardous goods via Ground in compliance with ORM-D.

UPS: UPS will accept handgun shipments by Next Day Air only. Rifles and shotguns can be shipped by UPS ground service. UPS will accept shipments of ammunition.

Most other shippers will no longer accept firearm shipments. Airborne and Roadway have specifically prohibited firearm shipments.

Notes on USPS Firearm Regulations
We recommend that you read the Post Office regulations on Other Restricted or Nonmailable Matter before shipping a firearm through the US Mail.

The following info comes from the USPS Regulation DMM Issue 54, January 10, 1999, section C-024

Page C-39, section 3.0, Rifles and Shotguns: “Although unloaded rifles and shotguns not precluded by 1.1e and 1.2 are mailable, mailers must comply with the Gun Control Act or 1968, Public Law 90-618, 18 USC 921, et seq., and the rules and regulations promulgated there under, 27 CFR 178, as well as state and local laws. The mailer may be required by the USPS to establish, by opening the parcel or by written certification, that the gun is unloaded and not precluded by 1.1e.”

Page C-39, section 6.0, PROHIBITED PARCEL MARKING: “For any parcel containing a firearm or a ballistic or switchblade knife, any marking that indicates the contents is not permitted on the outside wrapper or container.”

The following pertains only to licensed dealers shipping handguns:

Page C-37, section 1.3, Authorized Persons: “Subject to 1.4, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government…….”

Page C-38, section 1.5, Manufacturers and Dealers: “Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms and licensed dealers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.”

Page C-38, section 1.6, Certificate of Manufacturers and Dealers: “A licensed manufacturer or dealer need not file the affidavit under 1.4, but must file with the postmaster a statement on Form 1508 signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer or dealer of firearms, that the parcels containing handguns (or major components thereof) are customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of his or her knowledge or belief the addressees are licensed manufacturers or dealers of firearms.”

Here’s What They’re Saying on Reddit

OmniaMors -remember it is also perfectly legal to ship a gun to yourself without an FFL.
There is a problem with your suggestion of “over-boxing”, dimensional weight on Air service. A 4 lb gun in a big box becomes a 20 lb shipment. A Medium UPS branded air box would seem to be a better solution to not have as good as a chance to run into the dim weight as well as not drawing undue attention to itself. And even the giant Sig Sauer blue pistol boxes will fit in a medium and should ship actual weight.

Dim weight?
Dim weight = dimensional weight. It’s when you ship something that is big, say 24x24x24, but weighs only 5 lbs. You get charged for as though it was 70 lbs. There is 30 lb and 70 lb dim weight on ground. Air is much more picky, something say 20x12x8 could run 18 lb air dim air weight even if its actual weight was say 8 lbs.
Try shipping something that is 39x23x21 – box contents are only 12lbs, ~15-16lbs total with box & padding.
I ship by UPS daily.
Dim weight as Integer = package.weight.dimensional
As a gun owner and an 11-year UPS driver, I get a lot of questions from people regarding the safest way to ship and insure firearms through UPS. Theft of firearms and other items by UPS employees, ‘though rare, unfortunately does occur, but there are a lot of surprisingly simple and inexpensive ways to virtually guarantee that you won’t be a victim. Please pass this information along to anyone who may benefit from it.There are two things that cause thefts from UPS – pilfering and over-labeling.

1. Pilferers are mostly thieves of opportunity.Handguns, jewelry, cameras, and prescription narcotics are their favorite targets because they are easily identifiable and can quickly be shoved into a pocket or inside of a shirt, due to the SMALL SIZE of the packages they come in.The red and black “adult signature required” (ASR) labels that are legally required to be placed on these packages are often a dead giveaway. These labels are also called “steal-me sticker,” because thieves look for them. Most UPS facilities are fenced, and employees’ belongings are subject to searched exiting, so the size of the item is critical.

The BEST way to protect your handgun is to simply put it in a big box. One gunsmith on my route “disguises” his handguns by putting them in used Amway boxes! This works VERY well. Look at the box you are shipping your handgun in.If you can stick it inside your pants or under your shirt easily, it is vulnerable.As far as the ASR labels, you are required by law to have them on firearms shipments.

What many customers don’t know, however, is that they can get a more discreet ASR label that is incorporated into the UPS tracking label. These are better because the words “adult signature required” are very small and unnoticeable. More importantly, this barcode will electronically “prompt” the driver at the other end to get a signature. In case he accidently tries to “release” the package on the customer’s porch without getting a signature. He will be unable to do so because the DIAD (that electronic clipboard that you sign) will read the barcode and will force him to get a signature in order to complete the delivery. You can order these special tracking labels through your Customer Service rep, or you can print them yourself with the UPS shipping software.

2. Another more sophisticated method of theft is “over-labeling.” This involves several conspirators who plan ahead and may get jobs at UPS for that very purpose. What they do is to print up a bunch of fake labels, with generic barcodes and phony return addresses, that are all addressed to a storage unit or apartment that they have rented in advance. One or more employees who are sorting and processing these packages will then slap the phony label over the authentic one, and the package will then proceed along its merry way to the “destination,” where an unsuspecting driver will deliver it to another accomplice who signs for it using a fake name. This will go on for a week or so until the thieves move on to another address to avoid suspicion. Since the original barcode is covered up, it is impossible to even trace these packages and they simply “vanish.”

The thieves who do this will also target handguns and jewelry but, since they are not trying to sneak it past a guard, they have the freedom to target larger packages, such as rifles, TVs, and computers. How do you avoid this?


It’s simple. You put an address label on ALL SIX SIDES of the box. A package so labeled will be passed up by a prospective thief, since he must now try to cover up six labels instead of only one. This is too risky, since the areas where these packages are sorted are often under electronic surveil-lance.If you are a gunsmith or store owner who ships UPS, and the package you are shipping is worth over $1000, inform the driver who picks it up and have him initial the pickup record.

These “high value” packages are audited and are segregated from other packages. They are not sorted or run over conveyor belts, and they are subject to a chain-of-custody type of procedure that will prevent their being stolen. I feel 100% safe in saying that a handgun that is shipped in a larger-than-normal box of good quality, with a discreet ASR barcode, and with address labels on all six sides will NEVER get stolen or lost.

It’s unfortunate that a few of the 16 million pieces a day that we ship are in danger of being stolen but, if you take these simple precautions, you won’t be a victim.

Article source by A. Nony Mouse

The Godfather of Preppers

Q&A With James Talmage Stevens On Preparedness

James Talmage Stevens knows more about the preparedness movement than probably anyone alive. He’s been a leader in it since 1974, when he wrote the book, Making The Best of Basics. The handbook has sold over 800,000 copies since hitting the shelves at Kmart during the gas crisis. Over 500 pages long, it’s considered an encyclopedia on preparedness, everything you need to know. It is even made out of rice paper, in case you need to eat it.
Talmage tells me we’re undergoing a “doom boom” currently, due to the
lingering poor economy. There are all kinds of things popping up related to preparedness – even prepper dating sites. Talmage has been putting food away since he wrote the book – and it’s still good. I asked him what are the most important things people need to know about preppers.

RACHEL ALEXANDER What is the prepared movement?

JAMES TALMAGE STEVENS It’s being ready for inevitable catastrophic situations. You can’t go back to kindergarten, you know too much now, you’ve got the knowledge that things are going to happen. You’ve been there, you’ve done it. Your life has changed forever as you knew it, and it will change again. Most TEOTWAWKI (The End Of The World As We Know It) is positive. If you possess additional knowledge, you’re now more responsible, if you care to use this knowledge.
TEOTWAWKI doesn’t really mean the end of the world. It means things change for you positively or negatively, mostly positive, such as
getting married, having kids, etc. It’s not about just being prepared for a catastrophic world event, but life catastrophes, e.g. your car gets hit in the parking lot. It allows you to continue as if nothing happened. Of course, no one is truly self-sufficient except God. Look at it as triages that need to be sustained. For example, a garden is composed of the three Ps: produce, prepare and produce food. Unfortunately, people aren’t focusing on the right words. Not everyone
can plant a garden on the third floor of an apartment building. But you
can have indoor plants on your countertop. It also provides healthier,
raw food with more nutrition; and as long as you can flush your toilet,
you don’t have to leave your home other than to get water.

RA How should gun owners keep their guns prepared?

JTS I was raised shooting squirrels and rabbits, and I served in the military. People should have guns if they want to. I hate people like Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) who drive around with their armed guards – but I can’t. There is no legislation that will ever stop people from using guns. We have a right and should take advantage of it. I have a .22 long rifle, an AR-15, a 12-gauge shotgun, a .45 pistol and a .32 Franz Stock pistol.

RA What do you think about the recent hype over a zombie apocalypse?

JTS Do you know what zombie means? Hollywood has created this image that a zombie is an undead person. It ain’t gonna happen, God’s in charge of this earth, and nobody’s rising from the grave. Now here’s what zombie means: If you were addicted to something, you’d do anything for a fix. You would lose control of your ability to be rational. Similarly, in the case of a massive disaster, if you needed water or food, you’d do
anything to get it. If you know anything about the psychology of predators, they almost always go for the weakest and easiest target.

RA While researching preppers, I came across comparisons of the chaos and crime in the aftermath of a hurricane to what could happen on a
worldwide scale should there be a huge disaster. What do you think of
all the prepper shows out now? There’s Doomsday Preppers, Doomsday
Bunkers, Armageddon Arsenals, and Meet the Preppers.

JTS They’re taking everything to extreme. Someone learns something
and thinks they’re as knowledgeable as someone else, yet they have no experience. They are living the Walter Mitty life [someone living in a fantasy world].

RA What do you think are the biggest threats that could result in doomsday? A biological attack? Financial collapse? A natural disaster like a massive earthquake or volcano? Nuclear weapons?

JTS The biggest threat is you; it’s other humans. Because they believe the system is going to take care of us. I believe this is the greatest country on earth, set up with religious overtones to provide for all this freedom. The greatest threat is the devil. Everyone gets a blue ribbon just because they played? I don’t think so. There is competition for limited resources. Obama can write all the executive orders he wants taking my stuff, but he cannot take my food, savings and life earnings within the system. I pay property taxes, taxes on my employment, and I choose to be frugal and thoughtful and considerate, and you want to come and take it just because you wasted your resources on playing golf? I’m coming to get your golf bag.

RA How do you respond when people accuse preppers of being fringe?

JTS Mormons and Baptists are fringe. Republicans are fringe. It depends on what the conditions are. Everyone has some fringe in them. What about the people who buy a Prius? It’s like former vice-president Al Gore flying around in his private jet urging people to save gas – get a life! He sold a major asset to Al Jazeera.

RA What are your thoughts on preserving game meat?

JTS I made a lot of deer and turkey jerky. There are many ways to preserve. You can even freeze dry at home. Pickle it, salt it. Refrigeration and freezing are the most expensive and risky ways to store food. Our house doesn’t need air conditioning.

RA How has the prepper movement changed over the years?

JTS It’s shifted from tactical to practical. There are more people “living ready” now. Although there are now more guns and camo, you don’t need to include that aspect.

RA What are the “WAGs” you refer to?

JTS WAG stands for “Wrong Agenda Group.” These people have all the answers, but they just don’t under the question. They take (borrow) information and get into ruts. You’ll see things like “101 things you need to have when SHTF” – yet that particular article doesn’t even apply. It came from Argentina, which has vastly different needs than we do here. The WAGs simply repeat what others do. The top prepper blogs are merely aggregators of feeds.

RA Tell us about your radio show, which I enjoyed being a guest on.

JTS Preparednessradio.com on Blogtalkradio is all preparedness; there’s no politics or religion, except spirituality. There are no conspiracy
theories, or things that may offend ladies, who are 85 percent of our listeners. It is teaching and instructional. I used to do 40 hours a week. I am also a regular guest on the radio show Freedomizer [patriot topics].

RA Where did the term “prepper” come from?

JTS Shawn Dutton, who runs the Phoenix Militia, came up with it. Note that the Phoenix Militia is not the same as the types of militias that were prevalent in the 1990s, that were more anti-government. The Phoenix Militia is all about preparedness.

RA What is the difference between a prepper and a survivalist?

JTS Survivalists are a bit more radical than preppers. Preparedness is practical, it’s a way of living. You can live anywhere. It’s an attitude for dealing with the unknown. Additionally, there are bushmen and homesteaders, which include urban, suburban and exurban homesteaders.

RA Any final thoughts?

JTS Final thoughts: It’s our responsibility as parents and citizens to take care of our families, to teach and feed them. It’s not a governmental responsibility. The government was doing it for awhile, and back then they did a good job. Fairly good lifestyle 50 years ago, easy society to live in. My childhood was idyllic. Now it’s very difficult,
they keep whittling away with what made it great. We’ve let other people run our lives for so long that we don’t recognize the fact that we’ve given up rights. Today there’s much legislation you can’t buy a chainsaw without a permit. It’s Satanic, it’s evil, it’s not just opportunism, or free enterprise gone mad.
Do not rely upon first responders. You are your first responder, your first line of defense. You can’t always depend on your neighbor, or your partner, professor, school. We now live in a changed world. AmSJ

Editor’s note: Visit Stevens’ websites at preparednessradio.com.
Article by Rachel Alexander

Training with Ex-Delta Force Legend Pat McNamara

As this article is being written, the nation is both in celebration and mourning in honor of Memorial Day, as we pay tribute to those who served and paid the ultimate price.
American Shooting Journal proudly supports the military and the men and women who serve this great country, as well as those who have served in the past and are now passing on their knowledge, training and experience.
In the shooting world, there are many professionals to train with and learn from, but one cadre of folks is at the very highest pinnacle of the training world. These warriors come from the greatest combat university in the world, better known as the Combat Applications Group, formerly known as the 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment – Delta, or Delta Force!

Delta Force operators are considered the best combat marksmen in the world. In head-to-head shooting competitions, Delta has out-shot every counter-terrorism force worldwide. Surgical shooting is their stock in trade, and Delta Force Operators train long, hard hours, shooting in every conceivable position.

Here is a brief overview of what a Delta Force Operator goes through. After a stringent physical fitness test and grueling land navigation course that weeds out a large percentage of the class (and the selection is all people at the top of their professions), the Operator candidate then goes to Operator Training Course (OTC). There, the Operator is retrained in a variety of weapons for weeks, eight to 10 hours a day, systematically teaching the Operator target identification techniques for target acquisition cycle.

Operators shoot thousands of rounds a day in a variety of drills, from transition drills to malfunction drills to reload drills ad nauseum. They are then introduced to a “shooting house,” where range work and teamwork comes together. Operators spend eight hours a day here, sitting as hostages while their fellow mates blow doors and make entries, shooting precision groups on targets that are mere inches from their teammates. This is the raison d’être of why Delta Force members are so great at what they do.

WHAT MAKES A Delta Force Operator larger than life? They are predominately conservative, religious men that put God, country and family first. This is the same measure of a man that describes Pat McNamara, a leader in every aspect of life. A 22-year veteran of the Army, McNamara spent each one of those years in Special Operations, the last 13 years of which were with Delta Force. He retired as a Troop Squadron Sergeant Major, the highest enlisted rank a non-commissioned officer can attain.

Recently I had the honor and privilege of attending one of McNamara’s intense two-day T.A.P.S. classes held at Nail Ranch in Palm Beach, Florida.
As expected from a professional of McNamara’s caliber, his class included the following:

  • Lecture on proper weapons handling and safety;
  • Refresher on marksmanship fundamentals and shot placement grouping exercises;
  • Conduct a diagnostic course of fire;
  • Grouping exercises with both pistol and rifle;
  • Target discrimination;
  • Proper use of barricades;
  • Close-quarters battle techniques and Movement;
  • Immediate action drills

McNamara started out by making some pretty sound impressions to the class, one of which was, “There are a lot of gun owners out there, but just because you have a gun does not mean you’re not armed.” He further pointed out to the largely civilian class that “civilians have an equal duty (as law enforcement) to protect and serve as well… to protect ourselves and our loved ones and serve our communities as responsible, trained gun handlers.”

“We have to be our own first responders. We cannot rely on law enforcement, fire, EMS, to be there at a moment’s notice,” McNamara said. “We need to be trained, and we need to be able to take care of our families, our loved ones and ourselves… in first aid, in basic survival and in protecting ourselves. Now, that can be via conflict resolution, going fisticuffs or by being lethal!”

McNamara believes in performance-based training versus outcome-based training. The difference, he said, is that outcome-based training is “how many, how much and how fast.” It can be simply defined as execution with consideration of the consequence of “will I succeed, or will I fail?”
“But performance-based training asks, ‘how well?’” explained McNamara. “Where is my home and how can I make incremental improvements to the structure of my home?”

SINCE A LARGE focus of the class was on the rifle, I paid particular attention to what McNamara recommended as far as a good rifle system. While he hesitated to recommend one rifle manufacturer over another, it is very clear he likes Bravo Company Manufacturing (as do other former Delta Operators Larry Vickers and Tom Spooner, which says volumes about that rifle company). McNamara recommended the AR platform barrel to be in either 14.5 or 16 inches, because he likes distance in shooting.

As far as triggers, McNamara likes a good two-stage trigger (Geissele SSA trigger is what he runs). For optics, the hands-down favorite amongst the Ex-Delta alumni is Aimpoint in the T-2 series, but the Aimpoint Comp M5 is also getting great reviews from all the ex-Delta alums. On a tactical light system, McNamara prefers his at the 3 o’clock position using a sure-fire scout light, once again very popular with the graduates of Delta University.

Other items that are absolutely necessary according to McNamara are a good set of back-up iron sights like Scalarworks Peak sights. Another essential piece of equipment is a good two-point sling because it stabilizes the shooting platform and keeps the rifle close to the body or back. McNamara has his own version of a two-point sling for sale, but another option is the Blue Force gear sling adopted by the United States Marine Corps and designed by fellow Delta Operator Larry Vickers.

As far as pistols go, McNamara said that “a pistol should be ergonomically correct for your size and weight and should feel like an extension of your body. It should also be comfortable to conceal.” The class he was teaching had a variety of different handguns made up mostly of Glocks, Sigs and 1911s.

ANOTHER MAJOR EMPHASIS of the class was on marksmanship fundamentals. McNamara stated that the two most important fundamentals are sight alignment and trigger control.

He covered in thorough detail the proper stance, grip, presentation, trigger control and follow-through. McNamara stated that there can never be enough of the basics, and to this day, he continues to learn new things each time he practices.

“Everything starts with a single shot,” he said. “Marksmanship should be practiced one round at a time. BRM forces us to concentrate on the fundamentals. These fundamentals should be engraved into our hard drives and we must be able to perform these specific skills intuitively. There are facets that must be felt and performed at a subconscious level – loading, pre-combat check, safety manipulation, building a position, achieving a natural point of aim, sight alignment, trigger control, feeling the metal-on-metal imperfections in the trigger group, calling your shot, seeing how far the sights rises, seeing where the sight settles, follow-through, realigning the sights, and resetting the trigger. Marksmanship should be practiced in near slow motion.”

One cannot move on to tactical shooting until marksmanship fundamentals are sound, because tactical shooting is about target discrimination and proper bullet placement.

McNamara put his class through a variety of demanding shooting drills with a tempo hard to describe, other than that is his norm and his bailiwick in which he does his business.

AS ONE WOULD imagine, the class was filled with well-trained men coming from a variety of skilled shooting backgrounds, including an officer from the Army’s Special Forces, law enforcement officers and competitive shooters. There was one exception, however.

A seasoned shooter, the owner of her own ranch and a mother to three grown women, Deb Sullivan was holding her own in that class and was at the very top of the shooting against her male classmate peers.

I asked her why she decided to come to the Pat McNamara class and her thoughts about it.

Sullivan stated that she lives alone on her ranch and she alone takes care of all her animals. She knows she must protect and defend not only herself, but her property as well and everything on it. She admitted it was difficult to keep up with the men in the class, but it did not impede her in any way, as she made up her mind that she was going to get through the task that was demanded of her.

Check out these Cool Gun Safes Click HERE
to Check it out.

When asked her impressions of McNamara’s class, she had this to say: “My father always said buy the best and learn from the very best. There are no people on earth better with guns than Delta Force Members. I appreciated Pat explaining things I did not understand and he took the time and had the patience with me to make the things right that I needed to get right. The fact that Pat treated me no different than the men, I respected that immensely.”

Pat McNamara is truly exceptional in all he does and teaches; he is the living embodiment of pushing yourself to being the very best that one can be. His thoughts on self-preservation are truly top-notch, which he has turned into an outstanding book titled Sentinel: Become the Agent in Charge of Your Own Protection Detail. It is a must-read.

Pat McNamara’s training cannot be recommended enough! For more information, go to tmacsinc.com.

Story and photos by Paul Pawela

Armed and Aging

Some of us grew up in the era of cinematic cowboys and were toting that BB gun before the first whisker sprouted on the chin. Years goes by your guns become .22 to hunt and plink then up the notch to shotguns and carrying multiple pistols.
Defending ourselves can be tough as we age. Having an equalizer is a good solution in case of an attack. Unfortunately, with age physical problems may come up but this can be overcome.
Here are some ideas to help older gunslinger deal with their issues.

  1. Use Powerful Handguns – that you can shoot quickly and accurately. Its good to be able to gun sling a powerful handgun when you’re young. As you get older it may be harder to handle that .357 Magnum or a .45 ACP. So you might want to take a step down to a 9mm, .38 Special, .380 ACP or even a .22LR.

    Theres no disgrace in this solution. The point is you gotta have an equalizer of some sort. With a lower caliber shot placement will be an important thing to work on.
  2. Carry Positions – Most people carry defensively on their strong-side hip, just behind the hip bone. In order to draw the pistol your shoulder has to move up and back and do it quickly. With age our joint loses mobility. So its best to choose a different carry position. Try the appendix carry or if your pistol is small enough, pocket it. CCBreakaway offers pocket carry with their jeans. Both carry methods allow for quick pistol presentation.
  3. Eyes Going Bad – Sadly theres no way around this but to get glasses with bifocals. If you’re adamant about not wearing glasses then get back to perfecting that “point shooting”. It is about good shot placement to the torso but its not surgical shots like a double tap to the head that you have to be concern with.
  4. Hands & Forearms getting Weak – With arthritis creeping on us as we age. This can be bothersome when we work the slide on an auto pistol. Its been said that most people that work the slide do it with their arms extended. A better leverage position is to work it closer to your body (chest) with the muzzle pointed downrange.
    If for some that are dealing with issues that make them too weak to run the auto slide. Consider switching to a double-action revolver. Working the revolver requires less muscle strength.
  5. Exercise – with an emphasis on mobility. Before you try any exercise classes be sure to consult with your doctor. Yoga class is not a trend, it has been around for centuries. Try it, it is a great way to increase your agility and mobility no matter your age.

Check out these Cool Gun Safes Click HERE
to Check it out.

As we get older, yes strength and speed progressively deteriorates. But skills like shooting and awareness (self-defense purpose) exercise can still be maintained.

Story inspired by Jim Wilson revised by ASJ

History, Value to be Found in Gun Seller’s Stockpile

Hunters Lodge’s ‘warehouses are like a time machine back to the glory days of the surplus mail order gun.’

Those of you old enough to remember the glory days of mail order guns in the 1960s cannot forget Ye Old Hunter. This was the company that Interarms, the largest international arms dealer in the world at that time, used to dispose of the obsolete surplus military weapons it had acquired.
Prices were cheap, as low as $9.95 for whole columns of advertised guns, and the U.S. Mail delivered them directly to your door without you having to pay a dealer to be an unnecessary middleman. Customers could purchase rifles from British .577 Snyder conversions of muzzleloaders and Remington rolling blocks to every type of bolt-action rifle imaginable.

M1 carbines and M1 Garand rifles were available and even the futuristic and still unsurpassed Johnson semiauto rifle could be had. If a pistol had ever been in any government’s service, it would be represented here.

In those days, Sam Cummings, the head of Interarms, ran Ye Old Hunter along with Val Forgett and Meyer Reiswerg. Reiswerg was the one who wrote the unforgettable comic ads for the rifles. Ads like:
“Original Winchester Model 95 Cal. 7.62 Russian. Some with Trotsky’s fingernail marks and a few with Nikita finger prints – none with Stalin’s teeth marks.”
“6.5 Italia deluxa! A custom supremo at a giveaway price. Provided just to please you Carcano fanatics who doggedly refuse to accept anything less – or anything better. The rifle that blazed its way to inglorious defeat on mountain, plain, and beach retired at last so the victory can still be yours.”
“M93 Mauser long rifle with long barrel that brings you closer to the target for sure fire hits.”
“Italian 70 VV Sniper Rifles! Garibaldi’s greatest, complete with its special spaghetti grained stocks (not to be shot – luckily). Complete with 50 rounds of 6.5 Italian-looking (not shooting – luckily) ammo.”

“Arisaka type 38 rifle! The rifle that generated confidence for countless Banzai charges. Why rely on that back-breaking varminter you have been lugging and cursing so long – why take a chance on a long range shot with a fogged up scope? Save ammo and charge down that hapless woodchuck!”
Reiswerg went on to open Strand Surplus Senter in Galveston, Texas, where he continued his wacky ads. My all-time favorite was “Genuine G.I. toilet paper. Guaranteed unused!”
Whatever happened to all the treasures of Ye Old Hunter? Val Forgett sold the remaining stock in Virginia to the owner of what became Hunters Lodge, who also bought much of the rest from Numrich Arms and other sources.

What became Hunters Lodge began in World War II when John Batewell, Sr. and his two Irish-born brothers ran a small trucking company with three trucks. Business improved after the war and John Jr. would often ride in the truck with his father. They commonly hauled excess Japanese rifles and surplus to the scrap metal yards and smelters in Brooklyn, New York. Fascinated by it all, John Batewell, Jr. – known as Jack – started buying small parts and things that he could afford, printed a catalog on a mimeograph machine and began selling them. He bought a firearms dealers license in 1957 for the princely sum of $1 and ordered his first gun from Golden State Arms, a .303 Enfield.
Jack was a tough inner-city kid who really just dreamed of being a cowboy. But without much call for cowboys in the concrete jungle of Brooklyn, eventually Detective Friday on the Dragnet TV show inspired him to join the New York Police Department in 1961 with the goal of becoming a detective. He maintained his small gun business during the next few years as a beat cop, followed by a stint as a patrolman in a radio car. The gun business kept growing and it had to move out of the house to its first location, where it would be known as Southwestern Sales.

Jack began putting more time into the business, making new partners
and friends as it grew. Val Forgett of Navy Arms introduced him to James
Hogan, who was running the Francis Bannerman operation in those days.
Bannerman was the one who bought all the surplus from the Civil War
and the Spanish American War. He had built Bannerman’s Castle out on
an island to house everything, and Jack would frequently take a boat to
Bannerman Island with a one-armed associate of Bannerman’s to buy
canteens and anything else he could make a deal on and fit into the boat.
Jack also bought inventory from Navy Arms and Springfield Sporters.
He attended gun shows, where he remembered Forgett reading a book
behind his tables as opposed to the fast-talking hustle of Cholly Steen of Sarco.
Then Sam Cummings of Interarms invited Jack down to Ye Old Hunter
in Alexandria, Virginia, and Jack began buying inventory from there.
This is where he realized that this business was more than just selling
guns, it was also about preserving history. As previously noted, he
would eventually acquire most of the remaining assets of Ye Old Hunter. By 1968, Southwestern Sales had grown to be the biggest arms dealer in that area of New York. When the famous New York power blackout hit the city, he had all Southwestern Sales outlets surrounded by police so that looters would not arm themselves there.
A few years later, Jack moved the business to upstate New York and
opened another business, The Armory, distributing M1911 Colts and other
handguns and parts he had obtained from Interarms. In 1985, Jack retired
from the NYPD as a detective and closed down his businesses, but he
kept the inventory in storage.
He moved to Florida for five years, but then decided to take his
vast inventory and reopen business in Tennessee, where he planned to take advantage of the peaceful life the Volunteer State offered.

IN 1990, HUNTERS Lodge opened in Ethridge, Tennnessee, with an importation license added to their Federal Firearms License. Surplus began arriving from countries like Israel, Russia, the Czech Republic and Chile. By 1998, the emphasis was shifting from cheap surplus guns and ammo to customers who were collectors and historians.
One thing that has changed is a small segment of the customers. Back
in the 1960s, we enjoyed cleaning up surplus guns and using them. Today,
there is the occasional nut who buys a relic that is often over 100 years old and sold “as is” but then complains when it is not in new condition and has grease on it. Go figure.
Today, Hunters Lodge offers everything from fine original
heirloom-quality artifacts to antique firearms at all price levels, as well as parts and accessories.
Their warehouses are like a time machine back to the glory days of the
surplus mail order gun business. Stacks and stacks of surplus guns with most everything Ye Old Hunter ever sold are represented to one degree or another.

It is a treasure cave of antique guns of all kinds. Huge stacks of dirty, dusty, grease-covered guns are everywhere, awaiting cleaning before being shipped to their new homes. Hunters Lodge is expert at cleaning these up without harming the original finish. They care
very much about their customers and this is shown by a pile of testimonial letters from happy steady customers.
For those who want the best available examples, the price for hand-selected has always been $25. There are many rare collector
pieces that have gone through Hunters Lodge. A few years ago, they even had a lot of Sharps .50-70 cavalry carbines.
This was one of the fastest-handling, hardest-hitting carbines ever made. Long before the recent importing of Nepalese Gahendra and Francotte rifles, they had cherry-picked these guns and brought the best into their cavernous warehouses. Some of these are very, very nice. These guns are in .577-450 British caliber, but whereas the standard British bore size for the .577-450 is .465, these have bores that run .445. Hunters Lodge is planning to offer ammo custom made for the Nepalese guns in the proper bullet diameter for them in the future so they can be safely shot again.
According to the British Proof House in Birmingham, England, the difference in bore size between .465 and .445 is sufficient to blow up a gun even with black powder and lead bullets, so this ammo will be a necessity.
Also in stock are Remington rolling blocks in exotic calibers from various countries, including Scandinavian nations. At this point it would not surprise me if they uncovered a case of un-issued Colt Walker revolvers. It’s just that sort of a place.

Check out these Cool Gun Safes Click HERE
to Check it out.

SOME OF THE guns that they are now shipping in quantity that are in very good, if not excellent, condition include the following:
• British Webley 5-inch-barrel .380 revolvers from Israel at $388.50.
These work fine with readily available .38 S&W ammo (not .38 Special) and make a fine gun for home protection. Good power with almost no recoil in the superb Webley revolver system. Most any member of the family can use these effectively in an emergency. They are as simple and foolproof as a revolver gets.
• Japanese Nambu pistols from WWII at $650.88. You can find 8mm Nambu ammunition from Buffalo Arms. It amounts to a hot .32 ACP load. Shooting it is like shooting a full-size .22 pistol and it is worth remembering that in the first half of the 20th century, Europeans considered the slightly less powerful .32 ACP FMJ an adequate military and police cartridge. These are high-quality beautifully finished guns.
• British .303 Mk III Lee-Enfield rifles at $378. This is the standard British World War I service rifle that continued in use through WWII. As long as you don’t sporterize it, it is very pleasant to shoot and well proven on all North American game in Canada. Ammunition is available from Prvi Partizan (PPU).
• British .303 No. 4 Mk I Lee-Enfield rifles at $514.88. Made by Savage Arms in the U.S. for England during WWII, these are the final and finest of the Lee-Enfield series, with sights that are made to order for fast shots on deer. These are first-rate Savage quality guns. Ammo is available from PPU.
• Single-shot .303 Lee-Enfield rifles at $189.
• Italian cavalry carbines at $315 with accessories, for those wanting the smallest, lightest carbine that they can get for deer hunting. Ammunition is available from PPU.
• Spanish FR7 .308 rifles at $418. These short handy rifles are converted M93 Mausers. They have been slandered in this country by armchair experts claiming that they are unsafe to fire. But the Spanish Proof House in Eibar, Spain, stands behind them and points to their long and faithful service as training rifles in Spain and the other countries that used them when they were sold as surplus. Personally, I shoot thousands of rounds of all types of 7.62 NATO and commercial .308 through one of the M93 Spanish Mausers that the Spanish Army converted to 7.62 NATO. Ammo is available most everywhere.
• M1893 Spanish Oveido 7mm short rifles at $292. One of the first short rifles for both cavalry and infantry use, these have always been well appreciated for their good handling qualities and effectiveness, both in combat and in the hunting fields. Ammo is available from PPU.
• Russian Mosin M44 carbines from WWII in 7.62x54R with folding bayonets at $292. These accurate, hard-hitting carbines have successfully taken all game found in Russia and Finland. Ammunition is available from MKS Supply, which imports good quality but still cheap Russian Barnaul ammunition.
• M1910 Mexican Mausers on the short-stroke M98 action in 7mm at $415. These have always been well appreciated. Ammo is available from PPU.

THIS IS JUST a sampling, but it gives you an idea of the range and diversity of the inventory. I am like a kid in a candy store when faced with all these goodies – I wish I could buy some of everything they have.
This is your last chance at the 1960s bounty of surplus guns. Those days are gone, but this last major remaining stockpile of the guns lingers on for yet a little while longer. Thank goodness. 
Editor’s note: For more information, visit hunterslodge.com

Story by Jim Dickson • PHOTOS BY HUNTERS LODGE

Shotgun vs AR15

For Personal Defense

At one time back in the day, inside most police cars were equipped with an M-870 shotgun. Then theres an odd ball patrolman with his AR with .223 caliber. Which patrolman has the advantage?

The logic behind the usage of an AR stems from situations where a firearm needed for greater range than a shotgun.

So the debate begins, shotgun folks talk about having the knock down power to stop the fight with its 00 buck. AR’s with its high velocity and more firepower in terms of 20 rounds – 30 rounds magazine capacity.

Using either firearm we can make a perfect case as the weapon of choice to have for personal defense. In order for us to decide in an un-biased environment, a test should be conducted for validation. We can do this by pitting the two guns in a side by side shootout.

There needs to be a determination that each gun should be fired at the same target and at the same range. Because the idea is to ascertain some kind of combat effectiveness under stress, a time limit needs to be establish on each stage.

This test was based from Wiley Clapp test out on Gunsite where he had two Range Masters both skilled with the shotgun and AR go through this special course of fire. (Bill Murphy – shotgun and Vince Morgan – AR-15)

This course of fire were as follow:
A shooter armed with respective firearm would engage a silhouette at various ranges. First at 15 yards, then 25, 50, 75 and 100 yards. At the command of a whistle the shooter would have 3 seconds to fire off as many rounds as possible onto the target.

Without looking at the facts but common firearm knowledge of the two weapons. Shotgun at close range would have more hits, but at greater range the carbine would have more.

Within the shooting circle it is understood using anything like a .73 caliber, soft lead hollow-base bullet weighing 437 grain, traveling 1,325 fps at 25 yards will pack a punch. This punch when hitting a torso will instantly stop the fight.

Another thing to note from the test was that both range masters were supplied with stock guns. If you didn’t know, stock shotguns does not come with rear sights. So obviously, the test resulted that the AR was dominant at greater range.

Another perspective or to implement, if you were to put on some Red Dot sights for the shotgun and check out the wider use of slugs. I’m willing to bet at intermediate ranges from 50 to 100 yards the shotgun would fare well. Which is perfect for personal defense, then again that’s our opinion whats yours? Let us know below in the comment section.

Here’s another version of this test from Youtuber DRFTraining.
DRFTraining demonstrate the difference in the number of projectiles fired from the EVIL assaulty and killy AR-15 vs a standard pump shotgun.
The mossberg 590 pump shotgun used has a 5+1 capacity. When loaded with 00 buck, that means there is 9 (.38cal) projectiles in each shell.
That brings the total amount of projectiles to 54 vs the 30 (.223 cal) projectiles in the semi automatic rifle.
The mossberg is not on the AWB list, because it is pump action, and does not have a detachable “high capacity” magazine, but the AR-15 is.
They are both popular home defense firearms, and as is demonstrated, one is just a tad more precise than the other when delivering it’s projectiles on target.

Sources: GunSite, Wiley Clapp, Bill Murphy, Vince Morgan, DRFTraining