The Sig P365 and the Hellcat pistols are considered to be two of the most popular micro 9mm (pocket pistols) out on the market. Youtuber Ian and Karl of In Range demonstrates this comparison.
The purpose of this is to see and feel how both of these guns shoot.
They are looking at it from a performance level but nothing too technical
and this is not a valid way to test a handgun. This is just heresy from two people with differing skill level.
The only differences between the two pistol is that the Hellcat has a Red Dot attached for sighting. If this is better to have than iron sights, that is to be debated at another time.
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This test involves two targets which must be hit twice per target at the 10 yards and 15 yards. This is a time event which has the shooter holding their pistols at the low ready position and commence firing at the sound of the buzz. There is no time from the 25 yard, shooter have 10 rounds to see how many they get on target.
Results 10 Yard
Both shooters average times were faster with the Hellcat.
Hellcat won at the 10 yard close range. At 15 yards the P365 seems to be better without a Red Dot.
Ian is definitely the long range marksman, where Karl is the faster shooter at closer range. Having the red dot seems to be a plus when getting on target.
Both guns run really well. At the 15 yards the P365 won.
Both shooters have a different makeup, one has more aptitude for
precision shooting than the other.
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–Ian prefers the Sig P365 trigger being much cleaner, while the Hellcat trigger was more stiff. The reset may have been better on the P365 than the Hellcat. (both shooters agreed on this)
–Karl prefers the Hellcat, even though its considered a copycat of the P365. Incorporating the Red Dot is a huge plus not only for close range quick target acquisition but if needed to sighting a target 25 yards also helps having. Having an extra round may be just a cool feeling that you have one more round. The grip texturing feels more sticky, so much better than holding the P365.
That’s right coming from Rob Leatham. When it comes to shooting, few are at Rob Leatham’s caliber so when he’s got something to say about shooting, we should pay attention. Or, shouldn’t we? Without questioning Rob’s shooting ability, there has been debates on the different school of thoughts when it comes to “instinctive” shooting to precise shooting, or, accuracy shooting to speed shooting. Is this a myth when it comes to gunfighting? As you can see the list goes on, we have written one piece when the NYPD shooting program came under fire when their officers were missing their shots in actual incidents, when lives counted.
For the normal Joe that conceal carry, how much of this advise would work out on the streets when it really counted. There are other variables that comes into play such as the distances and movement. Circumstances can also dictate whether you’re shooting sighted or unsighted. For example if both people are wrestling for the gun, at this close range there is no need for lining up your sights. Hitting a target while stationary is one thing but while on the move is another skill set.
Which ever side of the fence you stand on, Rob’s statement is sure to perk your interest and opinion on shooting.
Here’s 3 things that Rob talks about to make you a better shooter.
Hold the Gun Really Tight
Point the Gun at the Target
Pull the Trigger w/out Moving
Take a look at the video.
Here’s what they’re all saying about Rob’s shooting method.
Earlier we mentioned shooting while on the move. Maybe, we’re getting off course here and shouldn’t compare two different things. Stationary shooting vs shooting on the move. Anyways, here’s Gabe White a highly proficient shooter that shoots at a Master USPSA level. Its just amazing to see a guy with some mad skill, yes, it would take a lot of work to be at his level. But one thing about this, Gabe does admit to using his front sight while acquiring the target.
Ok, back to Rob.
Video Transcription on Rob Leatham
[Rob Leatham] An instructor comes in, and the first thing they tell you is, “Focus on the sights, squeeze the trigger, pin the trigger to the rear, ONLY release the trigger, and try to relax. It’s all Bull[BLEEP]. As a rule, the first thing you should learn is to pull the trigger without moving the gun. You don’t even need to load the gun, you don’t need a target. You need to be able to fire the gun without altering the attitude, and the direction the gun’s pointed. Until you can do that, aiming is meaningless. Think about it, if you’re shooting a shot, you’re focused on that front sight, you’re looking at that front sight, You’re lookin’, lookin’, lookin’, you say “I’m gonna shoot…NOW.” And you jerk the gun six inches low, eight inches low, it didn’t matter if you aimed to begin with! So it’s pointless to focus on aiming until fire control is in place.
Ok, so the first thing I teach a new shooter is always the same thing: First off it’s safety, keep the gun pointed the right way, all that kinda crap. At that point, we turn into ‘Now listen, what I need you to do is hold the gun firmly’ and I put their hands on the gun, I show ’em how I want ’em to grip it, I don’t even need ’em to bring it up to eye level. I tell ’em ‘hold the gun right there, cycle gun, now pull the trigger’. Click. Nothin’, move. Click, nothin’ moves. Click, nothin’ moves. ‘Cuz they’re not aiming, so they don’t care about aiming. So you’re not letting the process of aiming affect their shooting as they’re pulling the trigger.
Then it’s “Ok, now extend the gun, point the gun at the target, don’t care about the sights yet, and pull the trigger. Click. Click, click.” So now we’re gonna shoot some shots, and I don’t care where you hit, we’re gonna shoot some shots now, live fire. And almost immediately, guy will start shooting, and I’ll see him aim, aim, aim, and I’ll say “Stop. You’re aiming. I don’t need you aiming, you’re gonna hit the target at three or four or five yards without aiming, so don’t worry about it. You can’t miss from lack of aiming at that distance. You’ll miss by moving the gun out of alignment by jerking, flinching, pushing, pulling. And it’s not ‘jerking the trigger’ either, I hate it when people blame everything on not seeing the ffff– the sight. And jerking the trigger. To shoot fast you’re gonna jerk the trigger, so learn how to jerk the trigger without moving the gun! It’s that simple! It’s just not easy to do.
So fundamentally if you’re trying to teach somebody that; this is one of Springfield’s new OSPs, the gun I shot at the Nationals; so the guy that does this motion right here, sights, everything looks good, and then they say ‘I’m gonna shoot NOW’, It won’t matter if te dot was where I wanted it or not. Because I moved it eight or ten or twelve inches when I moved it. So what I need the guy to do is forget about aiming, point the gun out at the target, and do this. Learn how to do this motion right here. Ok? So now even though I’m poorly aimed, the shot’s going to go where it was directed. And NOW aiming will matter.
So this is what it looks like live-fire. So you put it on here, you do everything right, you put the dot on the target, and you pull the trigger. Pull the trigger, pull the trigger, pull the trigger. Ok? At that point, I’m not trying to see a perfect clear dot. In this case, it’s a dot, not ironsights. I’m not trying to make the dot motionless. I’m not trying to fixate all my conscious thought on that aiming point. It’s about thirty percent on the visual, and the rest of it is all on feeling the trigger. ‘Cuz if I can move the trigger without moving the gun, I’m gonna have a good shot.
Now, shooting’s really simple, guys. It’s not necessarily easy, but there’s only three things that you have to do.
Hold the gun really tight, okay, don’t try to relax, hold the gun tight.
Point the gun at the target where you want to hit it.
And pull the trigger as fast as you can without moving.
That’s it. That’s all the secrets to shooting. And if you do it right, while it’s not necessarily easy, it is very simple.
I’m holding the gun as tight as I can, locking the gun, the sight’s in the target, pull the trigger, pull the trigger, pull the trigger, like that. Ok? And I just keep pulling the trigger.
Now you come look at the target.
[Cameraman] You’re fairly confident that this is gonna look like it’s supposed to?
[Rob] Well, I mean, it’s gonna be– the dot moved about this much when I was shooting. So if you look at the target, where are the shots gonna be? In that area. Now I could shoot it faster, and I could also shoot it more accurately, but the first thing isn’t learning this precision slow-fire crap. The hardest thing to do is to take somebody, who you forced them to focus on slow-fire and precision, and say ‘now just do it fast’. Because you don’t do the same things for precision that you do– The concept is, and it’s fault, it’s false– is that you do the same thing shooting faster that you do shooting accurately. It’s not true. The process of pulling the trigger is different when you’re shooting fast than when you’re shooting accurately. Now, can I pull the trigger slow? Yeah, ‘course I can. But the process is based on the ability to hold the gun, so the most important part is not aiming, it is pulling the trigger without moving the gun, it has little to do with the trigger, it has more to do with gripping and how you hold the gun and how motionless you can make the gun.
Alright, so I’m Rob Leatham from Springfield Armory, and thanks for watching Funker Tactical.
by J Hines
Source: Funker Tactical Youtube, Rob Leatham and Gabe White