Larry Vickers of Vickers Tactical and his buddy Dave Royer were out testing a firearm myths whether dual-wielding versus using sight alignment with a single pistol is better. Seen all the time in the movies Dave and Larry are out to show you what really happens when you fire two pistols at the same time.
They start the test with stationary shooting at multiple targets. (5 targets) Dual shooting (using H&K .45 Compact and a custom Colt 1911) was going from inside targets to outside targets. Single pistol shooting went from left to right. The result for dual shooting was at 2.8 seconds and 3.73 seconds for single pistol. Dual shooting was faster but not as accurate as with single pistol. However, for this test single pistol shooting with good sight alignment wins the accuracy test.
Starts out at a walk towards the target from 30 yards out and at the sound of a buzzer. Shooter engages the target while still moving forward. Dual pistols will be alternate shots between left and right. Single pistol lay down some lead rapidly. The verdict single pistol wins with accuracy and speed on this drill.
Here’s Mythbusters take on the effectiveness of Dual-Wield shooting.
Vickers Tactical – Video Transcript:
Larry: The next movie myth we’re gonna tackle is the Dual Wield Handgun. You’re also seeing this show up in a lot of videogames. Essentially you’ve got a handgun in each hand, and you’re firing at multiple targets, with amazing accuracy on the silver screen. On the surface it looks like it might be a home run, because you can fire a lot more bullets in the same amount of time as one handgun, in theory. What do you think?
Dave: I think I’d go with one gun, because you’re throwing out sight line on it, and that’s the key to accuracy.
Larry: Well, we’ll see how it shakes out. Got two guns here, HK-45 compact 45 ACP, and a custom colt 1911 built by yours truly, 45 ACP. We’re gonna do a variety of drills, dual-wield, then we’re going to do the exact same drills single-handgun. We’l look at the timer and look at the hits, see how it shakes.
Dave: Alright Larry, we’re gonna shoot these targets, you’re gonna shoot simultaneously at two targets, working from the center out, one at each target.
Dave: On the buzzer, shoot ready. Standby [beep]
Dave: Let’s check it out.
Larry: What kinda time we got?
Dave: 2.81 seconds.
Dave: Well this target looks clean.
Larry: Don’t think we have to worry about pace, now remember this was the far-left target, left handed, with the HK-45, this is actually the last target I shot at on the left hand side. Same deal.
Dave: Clean target on the left on the second target.
Larry: This was double-action, the HK-45, the first target I shot. Was this it?
Dave: I believe that’s it.
Larry: Target’s clean.
Dave: Got a center hit on this target.
Larry: Now this was the target I was focusing in on. I was doing the thing that you and I talked about, actually looking at the targets, and kinda trying to do sympathetic movement.
Larry: Ok, we’ve got a shot here. Not a great one, still a hit. And I got a hit here.
Dave: So basically, you were point-shooting to the right, and you hit every one.
Larry: Right. Two very good hits, one mediocre hit, and three misses. 2.8 seconds. Now, same technique: Low ready, finger straight, one on each coming all the way across.
Dave: Alright Larry, so we can compare, we’re gonna have you shoot like you normally would: With one gun, two-handed, from the low ready, at the beep shoot from the farthest left to the right, one on each target.
Dave: Shooter ready. Standby.
Dave: Time is 3.73, so less than a second, but I’m betting we got better shots.
Larry: Yea let’s check out the test. Bad hit, but still outside the circle. Talking about an OK hit but not great.
Dave: Excellent hit.
Larry: Outstanding. This one’s in our circle.
Dave: Top of the circle.
Larry: So we’ll accept that.
Dave: Absolutely. About the same place.
Larry: Same thing here.
Dave: Inside the circle, ’bout one O’clock.
Larry: ‘Nother hit inside the circle, and another excellent hit. Well I think the verdict is clear on that. Clearly one handgun and point fire, using your sights and index on the target, firing one shot at a time and make that shot a good shot; far superior to any kinda dual-wield in that scenario.
Dave: Absolutely, because as we know, with any kinda real threat, the only way to get rid of it is this.
Larry: Bingo. Got another movie myth coming up, this involves two pistols, and shooting on the move while shooting forward. This one’ll be really cool, I guarentee ‘ya.
Larry: Alright Dave, what’s the drill?
Dave: The drill is, I’m gonna give you the command to walk, and at the sound of the beep, you’re going to alternately shoot at one target.
Larry: Alright, and three shots each, alternating?
Dave: Shooter ready?
Larry: Hm. The hits are actually pretty decent.
Dave: And that’s what we were talking about. As long as you can acquire the target, point-shooting or the sights. If you’ve got sight-alignment on the target, it’s much easier, or you have much better accuracy.
Larry: Alright. Now I’m gonna try it with one gun.
Larry: Alright dave.
Dave: Alright we’re gonna do the same drill with one gun, command of walk you move toward the target, on the beep you engage with the target six-seven shots.
Dave: Shooter ready. Walk.
Larry: Alright. Well. Can’t argue with those hits.
Dave: No, and it’s what I expected on this drill, because this is a common drill in training, shooting on the move. You have perfect sight alignment, you have one target, shouldn’t expect anything else.
Larry: Well I think we can kinda wrap up two guns Vs. one gun.
Larry: I know what I’d pick.
Dave: You bet.
Larry: One gun. Every time.
[Vicker’s Tactical Outro]
Source: Vickers Tactical Youtube, TAC-TV Crew, Larry Vickers, Mythbusters
The Swiss Arms SG 553 RP 4K Rifle features the ability to take AK-47 magazines and 7.62x39mm cartridges currently deployed with certain tac units overseas. The adjustable gas system allows the user to run at a level that works best for them.
This one displayed by Larry Vicker of Vickers Tactical is a pistol modified with an SBR.
According to Larry, it took Swiss Arms quite a while in getting the kinks out so that it can take a wide variety of AK magazine. Sounds simple but time consuming process.
Here’s the following AK mag types that it will take:
Bulgarian Circle 10
Bulgarian Black Circle 10
Soviet Slab Side
Soviet Paratroop Aluminmum mag
Red Bake Light
Warsaw Pact Steel Mag
Considered one of the best non AK platform shooting the 7.62.
Has excellent trigger control obviously a top notch AK.
MSRP at $2650, do you want one?
Here’s an inside look at the Glock 18C which was designed for the Austrian Counter-Terrorist Unit (EAO Cobra). This 18C series means its compensated with features like this:
-Keystone cut at the top of slide near the front with 4 slots angle towards the barrel.
-a pocket back at the top near the rear of the slide to make this gun run fast.
With a cyclic rate of fire that runs as fast as 1,200 rounds-per-minute, the slide of the G18C can sometimes jog so fast that it can outrun the magazine.
Larry Vickers from Vickers Tactical in the above gives a short overview of the compensated Model 18 Glock select-fire 9mm handgun before sending brass downrange in beautiful HD and Slo-mo.
A true machine pistol and not a conversion with a fun switch modification on a more commonly encountered Glock, the 18 features a slide-mounted selector switch and is pretty rarely encountered due to the Hughes Amendment, which tragically relegates it to only LE and military.
Larry Vickers gets a chance to take this ultra-rare Sako M92S Rifle down range, which was based on the Soviet AK and Valmet Rifles.
The semi-automatic only Sako M92S rifle fires the 7.62x39mm cartridge. This model has a folding stock, a grenade launcher adapter and gas cut off switch. With many other add-ons, this rifle with a milled receiver is quite the shooter. The magazine release is very slick.
According to Larry, the shooting feels soft and thinking that the Fin’s did not overload the gas like the AK-47, most AK’s are overloaded with gas.
This sweet-shooting Finnish rifle is given a great workout. Witness what Larry Vickers has to say while shooting this Sako M92S rifle.
Hey Gang, here today I have a very rare semiautomatic version of a finished Army assault rifle. This is a Sako M92S. It is a Civilian Semiautomatic version of the Finnish RK95 select-fire assault rifle, which is essentially the last, and possibly the one that’s gonna close the chapter on the famous Valmet series of Assault Rifles, which in and of themselves were based on the Soviet AK. Now this one’s in 7.62×39, it has one of the black polymer magazines, interestingly enough up here of course you have the lanyard loop ‘cuz remember they get a lot of snow up in Finland. Sidefolding buttstock, which is unusual on the Civilian semiautomatic version the M92S, because generally they had a fixed buttstock that did not side-fold. This particular one has a side-folder, it also has the AK-style selector that goes with the side-folding buttstock. You also have night sights, in addition to your standard aperture, host front. Up front, you have a multi-function flash suppressor which also takes rifle grenades, and you can see, heavily influenced by FN. Upturned charging handle, which of course you see on the Galeel. Now, one thing I’ve seen, I’ve seen some pictures of this particular weapon on the Internet, we don’t have a really good system to mount optics to it. You’ll see some optic-mounting solutions that’re on the left side of the gun that are not ideal.
I’m gonna bust some caps outta this thing here in just a second, and give you my shooting impressions of probably the only one in the United States. Sako M92S. Stay Tuned.
Alright, picking up the M92S right off the bat, you can tell it’s got some weight to it. Partially because it uses a forged and machined lower-receiver, the Valmets are kinda famous for that. They did make some weapons with stamp-sheet metal receivers, but a lot of their guns had forged, machined steel lowers. Now, there’s no reason in this day and age you couldn’t go with a stamp-sheet metal receiver, and then that, though you may compromise somewhat on durability and accuracy, downrange, bottom line is for a soldier it’s lighter weight, and you’re gonna always be carrying a gun more than you’re shooting it.
Alright, time to load it up and go hot. Alright here we go.
Ok, right off the bat, pretty soft shooting. Not only in the weight, but my hunch is, the Finns didn’t over-gas it like a lot of 7.62×39 AKs are over-gassed. In addition, I’m shooting good old Finnish Lapua ammunition, in 7.62×39, this stuff is fantastic, it has an excellent reputation for quality, and also for being very very accurate. On the magazine release I’ve noticed right-handed shooters, you have this extended tab right here, so you can extend your trigger finger down as a right-hander, hit it, take the mag out. You can also come up with your thumb if need be, alright, take the mag out as well. Pretty slick.
Now one of the things the Finns have really endeavored to do here, is try to cinch down the top cover. This has always been the issue with the AK, in terms of sights or optics that are mounted on the top cover, you always have the devil in the details of trying to cinch this thing down tight. If you notice, they have a little cam lever over here, to really cinch it and lock it down. Now, they don’t really mount optics to this top cover, but they’re concerned about it from an Iron Sight point of view. Let me bust a few more.
Cool. Now, night sights are standard on this, you flip the rear sight in that in-between position, and then you have a rear pistol notch here that has a night sight, and then up front you flip up your night sight. Now you have the ability to run this gun at night with standard-issue night sights. Not a bad idea. I’m more of a fan, frankly, of the front-sight only as a night-sight. What I’ve found is, night-sights on service rifles that are closer to your eye on the rear sight have a tendency to blind you, and it completely washed everything out. I’d almost rather run a front-night-sight only, and just look over the rear sight, verses having the Tridium in the rear.
Pretty slick, gun is really heating up right now, I’m gonna try the gas cutoff valve up here, it should be single-shot now. See how it goes.
Ok, yeah. Alright. So, although you can shoot this thing single-shot live rounds,
it’s obviously meant to launch rifle-grenades, I don’t know that I would recommend it.
Alright. Now, stock folds to the side, you pinch it just like that, collapse to the side. All you gotta do is that. Now it doesn’t have a bolt hold-open device, got two more rounds left, so just like a standard AK, you’re gonna get that click.
[Two more shots, Click]
Click. That’s your clue that it’s time to reload the weapon. Hope you enjoyed it, SAKO M92S. Moonrock, here in the United States.
[su_heading size=”30″]Rock ‘n’ Roll Time[/su_heading]
Considered one of the most popular counterbalance assault rifle ever developed, is also one of the most well sought after. So basically it means for those that want to shoot a fully automatic rifle with control recoil and accuracy, this is it.
Gas operated with a rotating bolt
Muzzle break up front
Bolt carrier comes to the rear a gas piston with a reciprocating rod goes forward. Hooked together by two gears or a cog, this is what stops the recoil.
Here’s another explanation of the recoil operation when compared to an AK-74 from Reddit Guns:
when the bolt moves back on a normal AK-74 (im using this because it uses the same round unlike the AK-47). the backwards movement actually absorbs some of the recoil and delays when the shooter feels it. newtons’s 2nd law. in order for the BCG to travel back the gun must feel a forward force, which reduces recoil. then when the spring pushes the BCG forward the gun feels a backward motion.
the upside of this is instead of all of the recoil hitting you in .02s (made up number) it hits you over .03s (made up number). so the impulse is the same, but the average force is lower. the downside of this is that it creates a push pull cycle that creates a cyclic movement of the muzzle. so instead of just applying one constant force to keep the muzzle still, the shooter needs to apply a constantly varying force to compensate for the change in the recoil’s force and the change in the gun’s overall center of gravity.
the AK-107 recoil system with the forward moving bolt basically does the opposite. higher force but very consistent. so it will kick a little harder. But the kick is consistent so you only need to apply 1 force constant force making it easier to keep on target (hence the increase in tested accuracy). Think about aiming something heavy, vs aiming something that vibrates.
[su_heading size=”30″]Enter The Wobble Zone[/su_heading]
Medal of Honor Warfighter is a popular first person shooting game that highlights military spec ops in action. Most of the game is on shooting while on the move, though its only a game. Our audience have asked is shooting on the move the same in the game as in real live? Greg Goodrich developer for the MoH game met up with Larry Vicker to get some real insights to what its really like, so that he can incorporate into the game.
Larry had Greg and Dan from the MoH toting a 416 AR with and w/out a suppressor shooting at steel from stationary and moving either laterally or towards the target. Each of the phases progressively has the shooter firing single to multiple shots to auto bursts at various ranges.
Here’s what he found out – the “wobble zone” comes into play for both types of weapons (handgun and assault rifle) while on the move. The idea is to get a control over this wobble zone in order to be accurate and fast.
Greg: So I’ve been making games for nearly two decades now, and a lot of guys in this building are in the same boat. For a lot of us, Medal of Honor has become a very personal experience, and certainly the most rewarding for me in my career. Clearly, our main job is to entertain, and to create a slick first-person shooter that’s entertaining and engaging and driving a narrative in a very cinematic way. But there’s also something else we strive for, and for us, if we can also leave the gamer with a little bit of knowledge, and a little bit of understanding for the types of guys that are out there doing these things on their behalf, so when they lay their controller down and put their head on their pillow at night, you know, just for a brief moment, they may realize that at that very moment, there’s someone overseas, laying everything out on the line. And that’s real sacrifice. And again, if we can educate our audience on that, it’s a pretty cool thing.
Larry: Another thing I wanted to show the developers is, what it was like to shoot on the move in the real world. I know in the game they do a lot of shooting on the move as you can imagine, but in the real world it’s a whole different ball game. That wobble zone we’re talking about with the handgun and even with the rifle, that’s really gonna come into play here, you gotta get a handle on that. You also gotta understand what kinda accurate shots I can make on the move, where does semi-automatic play into it, when does it turn into suppressive fire mode, something like a red dot sight’s gonna make all the difference in the world in being able to put them where they need to be, and I want them to get a real, first-person taste of that on the range.
Ok Greg, one of the things I’m gonna take you through here, is the difference between shooting static and shooting on the move. Because as you know, medal of honor, classc first-person shooter, you do a lot of shooting on the move. A lot easier to do in the video world than it is in the real world. And you’re gonna see not only the difference between shooting static and on the move, but the difference between shooting static and on the move with semi vs. fully automatic. We’ve got here an HK416, freshly-done in brown cerakote, very nice, and we’ll just see how it shakes out.
Greg: Perfect, let’s do it.
Larry: Alright. If you would, load it up. Ok, start ready-low, finger straight, weaon on safe, and then on the beep, you’ll come up to semi in this particular drill.
Larry: Now, same thing we just did but with burst.
Greg: Ok, let’s do it.
Larry: Full auto on it. [Beep] [Shooting] Actually, pretty good job. The first two, you had two-on one-off. The second series of targets -the third and fourth- you had three-shot bursts on both.
Greg: Right on.
Larry: Now we’re gonna do exactly the same thing you just did, but with a sidestep. Just think about a badguy down there with an AK shooting at you. You wanna be constant moving. On your right. Standby.
Larry: Ok. Real good on the first three. The last two, you were off. No doubt because of the bounce. Alright, now, we’re gonna do the classic videogame mode, and go full-auto. We’ll see how it shakes in full-auto.
Greg: Rock ‘n roll.
Larry: Movement and full-auto. It’s an interesting mix.
Larry: Ok. First one, because you started static, was good. And then from there, it kinda went downhill. You saw two things working against you: Movement, and the tendency of the gun to rise on full-auto fire. And that combination means, at distance, shooting on the move fully-automatic is really cool in a videogame, in the real world it’s almost no value what-so-ever. Digging that gun?
Greg: Love it. Absolutely love it.
Larry: Four-sixteens a pretty cool gun, kinda near and dear to my heart.
Greg: Yeah, you designed it, correct?
Larry: I was involved in the design. And as we know, it had a fairly significant piece of history here recently.
Greg: Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much.
Larry: Cool you’re very welcome man. I’ve got more shooting to do.
Larry: Comin’ at you.
Larry: Alright, we’ve got another one of my EA Medal of Honor bros here, now we’re gonna take you through the SCAR. Very similar drill to what we did with Greg, but you’re gonna be moving forward after we do static. First thing is, I want you to come up, one on each,
Larry: Then we’re gonna do two on each, then we’re gonna do burst on each. Then we’re gonna do the exact same shot sequence, but moving forward. So you get a little taste of what it’s like shooting on the move going towards a target.
Larry: Alright. Go on up.
Larry: And one on each, standby. [Beep, shooting] Nicely done. Now let’s do two on each, semiauto. [Beep, shooting] Through a couple on the second shots you kinda got this movement going and it was throwing you off. You gotta look down the sights and press through each one. Don’t get into the slap mode or you’ll throw ’em off even static.
Larry: So now, same thing, burst. Go. [Beep, shooting] Ok. Gotta get a technique, gotta get aggressive behind the gun. Now remember, next time you do it, you’re gonna be moving forward.
Larry: So now, when I give you the beep, moving forward, one on each. [Beep]
Dan: I’ve been shooting my whole life, hunting, then I went to the military for a few years, and then there’s a shooting school out here I got involved with about five years back. I’ve been making shooters for about the last ten years, so my hobby is shooting and making videogames is my occupation, so they actually stitch pretty well together, and I’d like to think that a lot of that comes through in the game, you know, that we make. A lot of the guys that are making the games about shooting, and they’re actually doing it, there’s a lot of little subtle things that’ll get in that maybe you don’t even notice you’re putting it into the game, but it’ll make it in there.
Larry: Alright, let it hang, come on back. You’ve shot it now on full-auto, try to get that two-shot burst. Look at that. Aright? You ready? Standby. [Beep, shooting]
Dan here has a totally new appreciation for what it takes to shoot this particular weapon on the move, both semi and fully-automatic.
Dan: Roger that.
Larry: It’s a little bit easier in the game, isn’t it?
Larry: Well it takes a while to master it. If you don’t mind, I’ll demonstrate, doing a little bit semi and full-auto.
Dan: Alright, here you go.
Larry: Alright, I’ll try semi first. [Shooting] Alright, now, we try some auto. [Shooting]
Sources: Greg Goodrich, Vickers Tactical, Electronic Arts
[su_heading size=”30″]The Walk Back Challenge[/su_heading]
Anyone that follows Rob Leatham, who is known for his pistol shooting prowess knows about his “the Walk Back Challenge” drill.
Basically the drill starts at the 50 yard take a shot with your pistol, if you hit the full size steel target. Proceed to the 100 yard, you keep repeating this drill until you’ve reached a distance where you miss the target. Normally this is around the 200 to 250 yard range.
In this demonstration Larry Vicker using a Glock 20 which shoots a 10mm, the power is between a .357 and 41 Magnum. This pistol is ideal not only for home and self defense. But, it may be a perfect fit for hunters and back packers as well. Consider having 2 magazines which houses 15 rounds each, thats a total of 30 magnum power at your disposal. With the flatter trajectory of the 10mm rounds theres a good chance you can reach out and touch something if needed.
Check out the footage below and whats the farthest that you’ve shot with a pistol?