In the world of gun debates of what is reliable or A versus B.
The same goes for those in the 1911 world.
Are Sig 1911 less reliable than the iconic Colt 1911?
The guys from Youtuber Forest Firearms ran this test pitting a new version of Sig 1911 against an older Colt 1911. this test by running it through their version of a course of fire.
They shot at a couple of different targets from various position with reloads while under a timer.
Have a look here.
Though not a valid testing for comparisons, it looks like the Sig had the better results.
But between the two shooters, the one with the Sig may have been the better shooter in terms of accuracy.
Elsewhere out in the wild gun Forums, here’s what they had to say:
Is the Sig 1911 less reliable than Colt or Springfield?
3RidersApproaching: SIG offers some very appealing 1911s in terms of features (front strap checkering, rounded butts, etc.) And their pricing is attractive. Relatively few models from Colt and Springfield come with front strap checkering (something that I have, over time, come to really appreciate after having bought a number of 1911’s that DON’T have it.)
I’ve caught some drift here and there that SIG quality (perhaps regarding their non-1911 models?) is not so good these days.
Are SIG 1911’s of comparable quality/reliability to Colt, Springfield, etc.? If not, what seems to be the downfall with SIG 1911’s? Small parts quality? Reliability?
Looking at the SIG catalog, there are some very attractive 1911 models, in terms of factory features, being offered. It seems to me that SIG 1911’s present a tremendous value in terms of features (Novak nights, front strap checkering) for a modest price. What am I missing? Is there a catch?
mparker: For my money Sig and STI are what I would buy if I were looking for an off-the-shelf 1911 and not a custom or semi-custom.
remanaz : Both my Sig 1911’s have ran perfectly out of the box.
So have all 3 of my Colts.
My SA ro compact had a few light primer strikes before I replaced the ILS MSH. My SA Combat Op 9mm had almost no extractor tension out of the box. Both SA’s have been perfect since fixed.
Minorcan: My Sig 1911 has an external extractor which many claim inferior to the Colt internal designs. Mine has several 1000 rounds through it without a hick-up. I think that is as good as it gets. What more can you ask of any pistol or mechanical device. Mine is also a USA made product. Some people claim that these newer USA made Sigs are inferior. I just don’t see but since I don’t own any other Sig models I’ll stick to their 1911 pistols. As far as functionality and style I really like the lines on my Sig a lot. PS – I also own Springfield, Ruger and other models and like them all for different reasons. The only 1911 I’ve had an issue with was a Remington and I no longer have that one.
Riverkilt: For what its worth…I’ve had two Springers, one full size and one short barrel 1911. Both were nightmares…sent one in to be fixed and it came back from SA with the same problem – extractor nightmare. When the other SA began doing the same thing I sold them both (yes with heads up to the buyer on the problems).
My 1911 Sig Ultra Compact is a favorite. An accurate workhorse with no problems.
Have a Colt Marine 1911 which is flawless of course and a sort of 1911 in the .380 Colt Mustang Pocketlite. Never a problem with Sig or Colt.
honeybadger45: Sigs are metallurgicaly inferior to Colts and less likely to be cut right. Don’t buy into the weirdo Sig fanboy fantasies.
Makoman: I just got back into 1911’s is myself. I owned 4 Colt’s prior, all were great guns and ran like tops, save for one that didn’t like anything lighter than 230 grain ammo. Based on my own limited research and budget, I decided my recent purchase would be would be either a Sig or a Springfield. I just wanted something different this time. I went to my LGS and handled several of both and ended up with a Sig Sauer TTT. The slide to frame fit seemed just a bit tighter on the Sig. The slide also felt smoother when moving it back and forth as well. I’ve read that Springfield triggers tend to be a bit better out of the box, but the trigger broke like glass on this particular Sig. The thumb safety also felt more slick, but still had a very positive feel to it when engaged and disengaged.
The main deciding factor for me though is that the Sig just looked and felt like a better quality piece when holding it in my hand. For what it’s worth, of all the mass production 1911 manufacturers, I’ve read that Sig uses a higher amount of quality parts (fewest amount of MIM parts) if that matters to you.
honeybadger45: Sigs are loaded with MIM and charge Colt prices. If you want a MIM gun, get a Ruger, at least they are honest about their pricing.. “Sig, better quality through fancy paint.”
3RidersApproaching: So, you think SIG charges more than you think they should. Fair enough, but not a big deal by any means. And for that reason alone you romp around here with a flame thrower, torching anyone who likes SIGs with vitriol and insults?
So tell us about your experiences with the Sig or other type of 1911’s.
How many cop or detective movies have you watched where the hero had a .38 revolver?
Damn near all of them, right?
That’s because the .38 revolver is a ridiculously reliable gun. You won’t be winning any long distance sharpshooting challenges with it, but you will feel safe carrying one. Just look how confident those old-timey cops and private dicks were.
First off, let’s talk about what makes the .38 caliber and a revolver worth carrying. Some people might consider the .38 and even the .38+p ammo to be outdated.
The .38 ammo is pretty much the same size as a 9mm. Where it IS different is the actual weight: a .38 is heavier than a 9mm.
Both have their benefits. The .38 is a little slower-moving but has more mass. The 9mm has more punch to it and travels faster.
One of the main reasons you’d want to carry a .38 this because it predominantly comes as a revolver. Revolvers, as we know, are very reliable. There are less moving parts and there’s less to go wrong. That’s why a lot of the police and other agencies used it in great quantities before the advent of reliable semi-automatic pistols.
Agencies eventually moved to the more common use of semi-automatic pistols but it wasn’t necessarily because of a lack of confidence in the caliber, it was more because of the greater number of rounds in each gun that semi-autos provide.
If you have the option of carrying five rounds vs 15 rounds, there’s little choice as to which one is better to have in a gunfight.
The Colt Model 1911 has a really long lifespan.
I can remember when I first qualified on the 1911 while in the military. This may sound cheesy, but it was a huge accomplishment for myself with no pistol shooting experience at the time.
What I also love was seeing those old WWII training footage back in the day. Take a look.
If you notice this footage is very similar to the FBI pistol training and utilizing Col. Rex Applegate combat shooting methods for close quarter combat.
Maybe I’m just old school but I like the tradition that these bad boys 1911 have gone through.
Hats off to History TV Facebook for posting these time capsule footage of such an iconic weapon.
The M16 has served as the United States’ primary service rifle for nearly half a century, and in that span of time, many variations of the rifle have been created. Some were prototypes that never went beyond the testing stages, others represented improvements to the original design, and some simply defy easy description.
While a complete history of all the unusual M16 versions could fill a book (and probably have), here is a look at three significant oddball M16 variants that reached production.
THE COLT 9MM SUBMACHINE GUN
The Colt Company has a long history with submachine guns dating back to the legendary Tommy Gun used by both gangsters and lawmen during the Prohibition era. But by the time of World War II, Colt was largely out of the submachine gun business.
This changed in the early when the company developed a submachine gun to compete with the popular Heckler & Koch MP5 in the lucrative law enforcement market.
Instead of designing a completely new firearm, Colt piggybacked on the success of the M16 by incorporating as much of the look and feel of the stalwart service rifle into the new design as possible. The resulting Colt 9mm Submachine Gun retained the characteristic M16 lower and upper receivers and operating controls.
The biggest changes were the elimination of the gas system in favor of a simpler direct blowback design and the caliber switch to 9x19mm. Like the MP5, the Colt SMG fired from a closed bolt, which contributed to its excellent reputation for accuracy.
The gun was adopted by many law enforcement agencies that liked its accuracy, reliability, and similarity to the M16. These agencies included the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), the U.S. Marshals Service, and the United States Marine Corps.
The original Model 635 had a 10.5-inch barrel with a 1-in-10-inch twist, a fixed carry handle with M16A1-style sights, and a M16A2-style flashhider.
The gun fired standard 9mm ammunition at a cyclic rate of 900 rounds per minute. The magazines were based on the Uzi design, and modified Uzi mags could also be used. Both fixed and collapsible stock versions were available.
The current models are the Model 991, which fires in semiauto or full auto, and the Model 992, which fires in semiauto or a three-round burst. These newer versions feature a flat top upper and quad rail for easy mounting of optics and other accessories.
The 10.5-inch barrel has a 1-in-10-inch twist. The rate of fire is listed as between 700 to 950 rounds per minute. These models weigh 6.7 pounds and are 26 inches long with the stock retracted, and 29.25 inches with the stock extended.
THE COLT M231 FIRING PORT WEAPON
Although the Colt M231 was one of the most produced, it was the least successful of all M16 variants. The M231 was designed to allow soldiers in the Bradley Fighting Vehicle to fire at the enemy through gun ports without leaving the protection of the vehicle.
A standard M16A1 could not be used because the Bradley’s six firing ports featured a screw-type mounting designed to maintain a seal against a chemical weapon attack.
The 231 was literally screwed into the fittings from inside the vehicle. The M231 shares about two-thirds of its parts with the parent M16A1 design.
As with the 9mm machine gun, the most significant change was the elimination of the M16’s gas impingement system in favor of a direct-blowback, striker-fired design.
This simpler mechanism is typically associated with smaller caliber submachine guns. Instead the M231 is chambered for the 55-grain version of the standard 5.56mm NATO cartridge.
The weapon weighs about 7.33 pounds, and has an overall length of 28¼ inches.
The barrel is 15.6 inches long with the same 1-in-12-inch rifling twist as the M16A1. In addition to being shorter than a M16A1 barrel, the M231 barrel also has a significantly thicker profile.
The shortened hand guards end at the distinctive metal locking collar. In use, the M231 has a generally poor reputation. The weapon fires full-auto only, with a cyclic rate of about 1,200 rounds per minute. The M231 does not have any sights.
The soldiers were to aim using periscopes mounted in the Bradley and spot their fire by firing only tracer rounds from standard 30-round M16 magazines.
The difficulty in aiming, combined with the extremely high rate of fire, meant that the magazines would be emptied before the shooter could get rounds on the target. Later modifications to the Bradley covered up the side firing ports with additional armor and now only the two firing ports on the rear hatch remain.
The original design included a simple wire stock so the M231 could be dismounted from the vehicle and used on foot. This stock was dropped from production models and Army procedures discouraged the use of the M231 outside of the vehicle.
Ironically, it is in this role that the M231 has probably seen the most use.
Photographs from Iraq show U.S. soldiers using the M231 as a backup weapon in vehicle turrets. They have also been carried by officers and armored crewman who normally are only armed with a handgun.
Since modern 5.56mm NATO ammunition is optimized for 1-in-7-inch twist barrels, and not for the older twist of the M231, the weapon is effective at only very short ranges. When you consider the lack of appropriate ammo, the absence of sights, and the difficulty controlling a weapon with such a high rate of fire, you understand how desperate a soldier has to be to use a M231.
THE COLT ADVANCED COMBAT RIFLE (ACR)
The Colt Advanced Combat Rifle was part of the Army’s search for a weapon to improve the average soldier’s ability to hit his enemy in combat. The specifications for the rifle called for a 100 percent hit probability increase over the thencurrent-issue M16A2 rifle.
The program started in the mid-’80s with six manufacturers submitting prototypes, and by 1989 only four remained. These included the Heckler & Koch G11, which fired revolutionary caseless ammunition, a pair of flechette weapons submitted by Steyr and AAI Corporation, and the Colt ACR.
The Colt entry was based on the then-standard M16A2 rifle with considerable upgrades. The full-length stock was replaced with the adjustable stock from the Colt carbine, the fixed carry handle was replaced with a rail that could accommodate an optic or iron sight, and a long rib was installed as part of the hand guards to serve as a simple sight for shotgunstyle point shooting. In addition, an oil-filled buffer and muzzle brake were installed to reduce felt recoil.
A special duplex cartridge was designed with two bullets loaded in each cartridge case to increase hit probability through better projectile dispersal. The Colt rifle could also still fire standard 5.56 NATO ammunition and used standard magazines.
The program ended in 1990 after extensive testing revealed that none of the candidates offered a significant enough advantage over the existing M16A2 to warrant replacing the standard service rifle. Although the Colt ACR was not adopted, several of its features are used in M16-series rifles and carbines today.
The flat top with a rail was later used in the M4 Carbine and M16A4, and the ELCAN sight used by the ACR is very similar to the current red dot sights that are now standard on both carbines and rifles in the U.S. military.
Story by Rob Reed
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